Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

Boy oh boy, did I identify with Sad Sappy Sucker in that question. I suppose it is understandable, being so indirect, but it is unendingly frustrating to try to read women who are intentionally vague. Even when they aren't, it is hard to tell whether they are being honest and forthright, or trying to "avoid hurting feelings." Probably the worst effect of this behavior is that it makes me, as a man, second guess girls who are legitamitely interested. I just keep thinking to myself, when they say, "sure, let's go out again sometime," are they really thinking, "I hope he never calls me again" or "I hope he calls me again, and soon?"

When most girls are intentionally misleading, or only give subtle clues as to their true feelings, while using language that obscures it, it makes all girls' words suspect.

I have honestly never personally known one of these girls who does this. If a guy asks me out (something that doesn't happen very often), I will say yes, because I think going on a date with someone is how you figure out whether or not they are someone I want to have relationship with. You don't generally learn that by just seeing someone in class or at church. If I know after a date or two that I'm not interested in a relationship with him, I will tell him that I think we should stop dating and just be friends. And all of my female friends who I've talked to about this feel the same way. The only thing that would make me not say yes were if there was something seriously wrong with the situation, like if the guy was married, or I knew that he liked to torture small animals, or it was some random creepy looking guy that I had never met before. And in that case I would make sure he knew that I wasn't interested, not just make up some lame excuse, because I wouldn't want him to keep trying.

Either you want to date a guy or not. I don't see why it's so hard to just tell him.

The only guys who ever asked me for my phone number: a nine-year-old when I was 18 and a 50-something homeless man in the Cougareat.

I never asked a girl for her phone number.

In my opinion the woman Sad Sappy Sucker was talking about was not being capricious; changeable or acting on impulse or whim. She was being very consistent in turning him down on dates and being friendly to him. I think she made it clear she was not interested in dating him at that time, but leaving it open that she might change her mind later. She didn’t want him to feel bad or that he was lacking as a person so she continued to talk to him and text him. No doubt she didn’t want to create an unfriendly atmosphere, especially after Sad Sappy Sucker had engineered a situation where she would have to spend large amounts of time with him for the rest of the semester. I can imagine she has had experiences with guys who took being turned down on a date in a very negative way and made being around them very uncomfortable for her.

When I was dating I was never turned down for a date in a way that was unclear whether I should or should not ask again. But I was always turned down in way that I believe was as kind and understanding as the woman could think of, though it was sometimes indirect.

True Vorpal, I did overgeneralize a bit. And maybe this is just because of the way I am, but gauging interest is one of the most difficult things for me. Take, for example, a recent experience. I asked a girl out for an indefinite date, something along the lines of, "would you want to go out sometime?" I was given a response of, "Uh, I dunno, I'm really busy right now." To me, the fact that I asked an indefinite question, and she gave such a lame excuse combined to say, "I don't really want to date you." So I didn't ask her out again. Fast forward to now (well actually, a few weeks ago) and I hear through the grapevine that she was dissapointed that I didn't try to ask her out again. I think we have progressed to the point where being forthright is no longer seen as desirable, and kindness is equated with ambiguity.

Take the above example. It would have been very easy to say something like, "I'm not really interested in dating you, but I enjoy the friendship. Let's stay friends." Or, "I'd like to go out, but this month is really busy for me, with the stress of (insert event here, maybe finals) right now, I can't handle it. Let's try again in a few weeks (or month, or spring, or whatever)." The best way to avoid hurting someone's feelings is clearly lay out what your circumstances are, as long as they aren't malicious. But I suppose if your reason for not dating someone is a malicious one to begin with, it isn't really that important to you to avoid hurt.

If a girl said to me "uh, I dunno, I'm really busy right now," I'd take that as a definite no. If she was interested in dating you she would have said, "I really would like to, but for the next two weeks I'm just really busy. Please ask me again in a couple of weeks."

The fact that you recently heard that she was dissapointed that you didn't ask her out again is only an indication that she now would like you to ask her out. People change their minds. Perhaps she feels that it is okay to convince herself that she always wanted you to ask you out again because she remembers she didn't give you a definite "no, not ever." We all have a tendency to reinterpret the past to justify what we now believe. I don't think this is capricious, or just a desire to string you along.

I remember once being turned down for a first date by a girl who thought I wasn't cool enough for her. A month or so later I had an important role in a play, and played a loveable person. She suddenly changed her mind about me and let it be known through my sister that she really did want me to ask her out again. I didn't ask her again.

If you asked the girl out again, and again she gave you a "Uh, I dunno," then I would think she really doesn't understand people very well, or she changed her mind again.

I think it takes a lot of courage for a young woman to come right out and say something like "I'm not interested in dating you." It might be easier for her if the young man were to ask, after being turned down in what might be an ambiguous manner, "So, does this mean you want me to ask you again in a little while when you are not so busy, or will you ask me the next time?" You could ask something to clarify the situation. I think part of the responsibility for clarity rests with the men.

vorpal blade wrote:If a girl said to me "uh, I dunno, I'm really busy right now," I'd take that as a definite no. If she was interested in dating you she would have said, "I really would like to, but for the next two weeks I'm just really busy. Please ask me again in a couple of weeks."

Yep, that's how I'd take it too. It's interesting that even someone who's "ancient" would interpret things the same way.

vorpal blade wrote:I think it takes a lot of courage for a young woman to come right out and say something like "I'm not interested in dating you." It might be easier for her if the young man were to ask, after being turned down in what might be an ambiguous manner, "So, does this mean you want me to ask you again in a little while when you are not so busy, or will you ask me the next time?" You could ask something to clarify the situation. I think part of the responsibility for clarity rests with the men.

This is most definitely true. I've been talking to one of my younger sisters as she's been figuring out dating here at BYU, and it has taken her a while to learn how to turn guys down. It's not easy for her at all; she's very kind and doesn't like rejecting people.

I also think that it's very reasonable for a guy to ask for clarification, although I've never thought to do it like that before.

One time I asked a girl if she wanted to play Warcraft 3 with me. She said she had to watch Smallville. Heart -> broken.

bismark wrote:One time I asked a girl if she wanted to play Warcraft 3 with me. She said she had to watch Smallville. Heart -> broken.

bismark, I <B you. You're among my heroes.

see, if a guy asked me if i wanted to go out sometime and wasn't specific i'd think he was just asking me out of pity or something. "sometime" is so vague that i really wouldn't know what to say, even if i really liked the guy.

Imogen wrote:see, if a guy asked me if i wanted to go out sometime and wasn't specific i'd think he was just asking me out of pity or something. "sometime" is so vague that i really wouldn't know what to say, even if i really liked the guy.

Simple. You said, "Sure! I'd love to. When?"

Yeah, things were not so different in "ancient" times.

I dated a girl some before my mission, and once or twice after my mission. Then one time she turned me down for a Friday night date by saying, "I'm planning to wash my hair that night." She gave no hint that I should ask her another time. It was plain to me that it was time to move on. She is still a good friend of one of my sisters.

I typed this up earlier, but then the internet ate it. But I was going to say that part of the problem sometimes is that the guy may not be clear in his intentions. When I first moved here, this guy in my branch that I had met very briefly called me one night and said something like, "Hey, I was wondering if you wanted a ride to the activity tonight because my friend lives over by you and I'm picking him, so I could pick you up too." I hadn't planned on going to the activity, and I thought he was just being nice because he knew that I didn't have a car and I didn't know where stuff was in the city yet. So I said, "Thanks for the offer, but I don't think I'm going to the activity."

Well, that Sunday, the Relief Society president cornered me and said, "(Car dude) is really hurt and upset that you wouldn't go out with him. He's a really great guy and it's pretty rude of you to not even give him a chance." I was like, what the heck? I don't see how I was supposed to get the idea that he was asking me out from what he actually asked me.

A few weeks later I did end up going on a date with him, and he was not in fact a "really great guy" but rather a creep and disrespectful guy. But that's a different story.

NerdGirl wrote: Well, that Sunday, the Relief Society president cornered me and said, ...

So what you're saying is, get in good with the relief society president, and she'll go to bat for me every time I get turned down? Sounds like a plan.

Your story, NerdGirl, reminds me of something that happened to me. My sister was talking on the phone to a friend while I was in the room with my sister. Just to annoy me she said something to the girl about me wanting to take her to the dance that weekend. It was a joke, but I didn't think it was very funny. It was something totally made up as I had never especially wanted to take this girl out. I was embarrassed, but immediately forgot all about it. I saw the girl in seminary every day that week, and nothing was said. The next week, however, things were pretty chilly in seminary.

A day or two later my father had a heart-to-heart talk with me about how rude and inconsiderate it was to stand a girl up for a date. She had waited and waited at home for me to come pick her up. Then she went to the dance as she had a part in the floor show, and then came home to wait some more for me. It took me a few minutes to figure out why this girl thought I had asked her out on a date. I was quite embarrassed by it.

And then there was the time my "friend" asked me to pass a note to a girl in class. The note was a request from me to see if she would go out with me. She replied, "When? Where?" I tried to hand the note back to my friend, but he just laughed and told me to read it. More embarrassment.

I couldn't bring myself to ever ask either of those two girls out on a date.

It pays to have clarity.

Yep, I'm glad those days are behind me.