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Hymn #19
Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:25 am
by C is for
A couple things (this may get a tad soapboxy, but as it's a response to a question today it should be fine):
1. It's always struck me as odd that the last verse of "We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet" ends on a negative note. I've found that the last verse, and the last line, are often the most meaningful and uplifting in hymns, so to have it talk about people rejecting glad messages has always been ... odd. Interesting that the RLDS church omitted that whole verse. (And so did we, I guess?)
2. The pronoun doesn't shift halfway through the second verse (well, okay, it does, but not in the way people are always saying). People have been saying that for years (starting with my first release-time seminary teacher), but it's just not true. The entire song is directed to God. We thank thee, O God for a prophet. We thank thee for sending the gospel. We thank thee for every blessing.
The pronoun shift goes from a "thee" to a "him". Still talking about the Lord, though. It's a hymn to the Lord, thanking him for the many blessings of the gospel he has given us! And I love it. I love this hymn.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:10 am
by Katya
C is for wrote:2. The pronoun doesn't shift halfway through the second verse (well, okay, it does, but not in the way people are always saying). People have been saying that for years (starting with my first release-time seminary teacher), but it's just not true. The entire song is directed to God. We thank thee, O God for a prophet. We thank thee for sending the gospel. We thank thee for every blessing.
The pronoun shift goes from a "thee" to a "him". Still talking about the Lord, though. It's a hymn to the Lord, thanking him for the many blessings of the gospel he has given us! And I love it. I love this hymn.
Interesting observation! (Although "thee" isn't mentioned in the beginning of the 2nd verse, so you could argue that the shift takes place before the second verse, not in the middle of it.)
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:51 am
by Foreman
I do know the entire song is about the Lord, by the way. It's just in second person for the first half, and switches to third person at that point in the second verse. Thus, the "pronoun shifting" remark. I think a lot of people get that the song is thanking the Lord in the beginning, but think that the third-person pronoun is still referring to the former third-person subject (the prophet) rather than the new one (the Lord).
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:12 pm
by Wisteria
I always cringed a little at the end of the second and third verses. I get that "the wicked who fight against Zion shall surely be smitten at last" probably has a different connotation to someone who's been attacked by mobs, but it always sounded a little petulant to me. And I agree with C4- while "they who reject this glad message shall never such happiness know" is doctrinally correct, it sounds a little too much like little kids comparing things to me. It doesn't bug me as much as it used to, but it's not my favorite.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:29 pm
by Tao
I always saw the first verse as directed to God and the other two to each other. I don't see much of a problem.
The hymns that irrationally get under my skin are #250 We Are All Enlisted and #116 Come, Follow Me. Grrr.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:33 am
by Katya
Wisteria wrote:I always cringed a little at the end of the second and third verses. I get that "the wicked who fight against Zion shall surely be smitten at last" probably has a different connotation to someone who's been attacked by mobs, but it always sounded a little petulant to me.
Are you familiar with the original anti-Illinois verse in "Praise to the Man"?
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:26 am
by wired
Tao wrote:The hymns that irrationally get under my skin are #250 We Are All Enlisted and #116 Come, Follow Me. Grrr.
I'll bite. Why do those get under your skin? (Especially Come Follow Me?)
I think we can all objectively conclude that In Our Lovely Deseret is the worst hymn of all time.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:49 am
by Craig Jessop
I admit I don't lik Come Follow Me or Sweet Hour of Prayer. They're easy to play so we sing them far too often, thus part of the reason I always volunteer to play at church, firesides, you name it, just so we don't have to sing an old standby like those. Nothing against them, of course, just seminary was four long years of Come Follow Me.
On a side note, I hate when I'm asked to play for a meeting and the conducting officer asks me to choose the hymn. I can play anything out of the hymnbook, so I wish they would spare me the agony of choosing a hymn that people are familiar with, but not at Choose the Right level of overplayed. The next time someone asks me, I might just choose Lean on My Ample Arm, or Sons of Michael He Approaches.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:13 am
by NerdGirl
I have happy and sad faces in my tiny hymn book next to the hymns I like and the hymns I don't like.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:34 am
by Foreman
Katya wrote:Wisteria wrote:I always cringed a little at the end of the second and third verses. I get that "the wicked who fight against Zion shall surely be smitten at last" probably has a different connotation to someone who's been attacked by mobs, but it always sounded a little petulant to me.
Are you familiar with the original anti-Illinois verse in "Praise to the Man"?
I've always thought that the last verse of "Praise to the Man" sounded vaguely threatening...if there's an additional verse that actually is, I would be interested to hear about it.
Side note: we once took an Irish-Aussie-American transplant to see the Joseph Smith movie at my mission's Visitors' Center. Afterward, we asked how he liked it. "It was really good...but why were they playing
Scotland the Brave at the end?" It was great.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:41 am
by Unit of Energy
There wasn't an additional verse to Praise to the Man, it was the last two or three lines of the fourth verse.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:46 am
by Gimgimno
Yeah, the altered text of the second verse doesn't really fit perfectly, but it's much more diplomatic and...tactful than the original verse.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:47 am
by Yellow
wired wrote:I think we can all objectively conclude that In Our Lovely Deseret is the worst hymn of all time.
It's much, much more interesting when played in minor. I call it "In Our Mournful Deseret". Still need to come up with words, though.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:50 am
by Gimgimno
Original Second Verse wrote:Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr,
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois, while the earth lauds his fame.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:02 am
by Laser Jock
Yellow wrote:wired wrote:I think we can all objectively conclude that In Our Lovely Deseret is the worst hymn of all time.
It's much, much more interesting when played in minor. I call it "In Our Mournful Deseret". Still need to come up with words, though.
As someone who's heard Yellow's minor rendition, I agree. It's much better than the original.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:39 am
by Katya
Gimgimno wrote:Original Second Verse wrote:Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr,
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois, while the earth lauds his fame.
I was living in Illinois when I first learned about this verse, so my reaction was "No! Don't hurt Illinois!"
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:37 pm
by Tao
wired wrote:I'll bite. Why do those get under your skin? (Especially Come Follow Me?)
I think we can all objectively conclude that In Our Lovely Deseret is the worst hymn of all time.
Come Follow Me verse 3:
"Is it enough alone to know
That we must follow him [here] below
While trav'ling through this vale of tears?
No, this extends to holier spheres."
Great fine and wonderful. On to verse 4:
"Not only shall we emulate
His course while in this earthly state,
But when we're freed from present cares,
If with our Lord we would be heirs."
If what? It's saying not only should we follow Christ, but if we want to be heirs.... thank you for that lovely song, now it is time for the prayer. Grrrr.
I think for the hundreds of times I've sung this song, I've actually gone on to verse 5 once.
"We must the onward path pursue
As wider fields expand to view,
And follow him unceasingly,
Whate'er our lot or sphere may be."
Look! The other half of the thought! What an idea! Either end at 3 or at least go till 5. But the page break hits at 4 and apparently no one really cares what it is we sing.
We Are All Enlisted is more a personal arguement with the rhyme scheme, really.
Fill in the blank:
We are all enlisted till the conflict is
o’er;
Happy are we! Happy are we!
Soldiers in the army, there’s a bright crown in
store;
We shall win and wear it by and by.
Haste to the battle, quick to the
field;
Truth is our helmet, buckler, and
shield.
Stand by our colors; proudly they
wave!
We’re joyfully, joyfully marching to our _____.
On a similar note, I was touched to hear a group of Marines sing the original Battle Hymn of the Republic: "As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free"
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:39 pm
by Tao
And you're right about In Our Lovely Deseret, I think I was scarred as a child: Bark! Bark! Bark! 'Tis children's music....
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:41 pm
by Marduk
Tao wrote:
"Not only shall we emulate
His course while in this earthly state,
But when we're freed from present cares,
If with our Lord we would be heirs."
This is actually a complete thought without verse 5. It is moving the sentence structure around utilizing poetic license, so the if/then format becomes a then/if format. In other words, we should emulate his course in this earthly state as well as when we're freed from present cares if we want to be heirs with our Lord.
Re: Hymn #19
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:04 pm
by Gimgimno
Tao wrote:We are all enlisted till the conflict is o’er;
Happy are we! Happy are we!
Soldiers in the army, there’s a bright crown in store;
We shall win and wear it by and by.
Haste to the battle, quick to the field;
Truth is our helmet, buckler, and shield.
Stand by our colors; proudly they wave!
We’re joyfully, joyfully marching to our _____.
When this song was originally written in 88,000,000 B.C., it was "joyfully marching to our
cave." However, many years have passed since then, so they opted to change it to the more correct "home" rather than preserve the original rhyme scheme.