tithing

[ahem.]

Several people have mentioned tithing over on the Saving/Frugality thread, and it reminded me of something.

Now, I always pay my tithing... eventually. I don't get paid regularly these days, so it's something I have to work to remember and sometimes I'll get a few paychecks piled up before I remember to write out the check. It's not like I'm spending my tithing money and then paying it back later... it just sits in my checking account, mentally "off limits" until I remember to pay it. Like, I could be dead broke, but still have $80 worth of tithing sitting in my checking account that I would never ever spend.

So I guess my question is... is that okay? I was sitting in sacrament last Sunday and someone mentioned something about the blessings that come from paying tithing, and my mind immediately pinged that I had forgotten yet again to write out a tithing check.

And then I started thinking about how much it sucks that I don't have a job, and how awesome it would be if I got the job I am interviewing for this week. And then I started panicking that maybe since I hadn't paid my tithing yet, I wouldn't get the job and how could I make sure my tithing got paid before the interview? And I kept thinking that maybe if I wrote the check and filled out the form and tucked it in my scriptures for next week, that would be good enough and maybe I'd be blessed enough to get the job anyway. But then I remembered that I'd be traveling next Sunday and it would be two whole weeks until I could get it paid. And how weird would it really be if I mailed it to my bishop-- probably really weird, right? Maybe I could stop by the church one evening when he was doing interviews...

Anyway, it was a mild freak out and it surprised me, because I've never really felt guilty for my occasional slowness on getting my tithing paid promptly, but suddenly it became VERY IMPORTANT.

Does anyone else have an opinion on this subject?

[Dragon Lady]

You can certainly mail it. That's not weird at all. There's a reason they print the bishop's address on the envelope. We almost did that a few weeks ago.

And, well, I think this is totally a personal thing. The doctrine says to give 1/10th of your increase. It doesn't say how often. I've heard of people paying it at the end of the year or when they do their taxes. Other people pay it as soon as they get paid. Some do monthly. Some do whenever they remember. I think that as long as you're not spending the money and it is really set aside for tithing, as long as it gets paid in full, you're good.

The bishop asks during tithing settlement, "Are you a full tithe payer?" Not "Are you a full tithe payer and do you pay it as soon as you get paid?"

That said, I personally feel it should be paid immediately for two reasons (and this is for me. Not meant for general advice): 1) It shows God that my monetary priority is tithing and 2) it gets the money out of my checking account a) so I don't spend it and b) so it doesn't drive me mad seeing money in there that I can't spend. In fact, if I forget my tithing at home or I know I'll be out of town and it'll take an extra week to get it to the bishop, I'll actually transfer the money to savings so that it's not sitting there taunting me.

[TheAnswerIs42]

We have had an interesting adjustment in our marriage over this. I was used to paying tithing every time I got paid. But my husband's family always paid their tithing exactly once a year at tithing settlement. They felt like it was a good thing somehow for their children to watch the big check get paid in their family tithing settlement. I think it is a TERRIBLE idea to let your tithing build up in your own account, and then try to pay it out during Christmas, when money is always tight anyway. But to him that is the way life should be.

Like Dragon Lady said, it's a personal decision.

For us, our compromise has been a few times a year. We just let my guilt build up until I have to turn the check in, and he doesn't even think about it until the end of the year. I just make sure that, no matter what, I have a spreadsheet that shows how much we owe and enough to cover it in the bank.

[thebigcheese]

Here's one thing to think about: a lady in my home ward kept her tithing money hidden somewhere in her house. One day, a thief broke in and robbed them. Guess what was missing when she got home? The tithing box. Kinda makes that scripture about robbing God seem all the more literal.

Granted, most of us don't do that. We keep our money tucked away in various accounts. But...things happen. For example, identity theft could drain your tithing account pretty quickly. Or just regular spending without careful record keeping. I think it's always safer to pay it frequently, although I wouldn't call anyone a sinner for not doing so.

[Marduk]

I'd agree with the consensus: pay tithing as frequently as you feel appropriate. I always do monthly; since I work at a job that I get paid part every time I work, it would mean that I would be mailing checks every night, were I to pay upon receipt of said funds. Also, this lets me budget appropriately, as I can balance my financial sheet at that point. You know, I look at how much I made during the month, cut a 10% check for tithing, make sure rent/phone/insurance/other monthly bills are paid, transfer some funds over to savings (usually between 5-20%, depending on how lucrative that month was) and, in general, tally how well I did at fiduciary management.

For me, part of the reason tithing helps ensure there is enough money isn't because it magically gets us jobs or mysteriously we find money right after we pay it to pay our other expenses, (granted, those things happen, but I think they are more the exception than the rule) it is because it trains us to budget properly. Most financial problems are due to failure to budget than lack of income.

[Tao]

Couple of things potentially worth mentioning: first, only the bishop can receive tithing payments if it's not Sunday. Though you may be used to handing it to the second counselor who also happens to be your next door neighbor, he's not authorized to handle it outside of those hours on Sunday. Get it to your bishop.

On the timing, I really don't think it matters. As part of my own personal musings on tithing, I've realized that the church has absolutely no need of my money. I've worked with individuals who pay more tithing in one year than I'll make in my life. The purpose of tithing isn't to fund the church, nor its many auxiliaries. The purpose of tithing, in my eyes, is to sanctify the tither. In the situation thebigcheese mentioned where the lady had her tithing stolen, I'd be of the opinion that she is under no obligation to scrape together another tithing payment. She's payed her tithe. Granted, this doesn't mean that we should hold ceremonial bonfires and burn 10% of our increase each year, the system is set up to maximize blessings all around, but I doubt the Lord is going to mind getting it late (or never) if the giving intent was truly there.

@ Marduk: Too right.

[ahem.]

the reason tithing helps ensure there is enough money isn't because it magically gets us jobs or mysteriously we find money right after we pay it to pay our other expenses, (granted, those things happen, but I think they are more the exception than the rule) it is because it trains us to budget properly.

There are specific, enumerated promises associated with tithing. I don't think the process is in any way a magical exchange of goods whereby if I find myself in financial need, all I have to do is send off a tithing check and all my dreams come true. That is silly. But there IS a cause and effect to tithing, and it would also be silly of me to ignore that.

I've been looking for a job off and on for the last 10 months. I have no steady income. Budgeting is not a long-term solution for me. I need a job. So while my brief freak out may have been slightly panicy and illogical, I don't think I was wrong to think I may be in need of some of the blessings promised to tithe payers. And I am concerned I may have been a little lax in my obedience to that law. Why on earth wouldn't I try to stack the deck as much in my favor as possible, even if it means illogically attempting to speed deliver my tithing to my bishop.



Upon further reflection, though, I think I'm going to fill out the check and tuck it in my scriptures until I can hand it over next time I see my bishop in person. Which, yes, will probably be after my job interview. And I think that will be okay.

[Dead Cat]

Couple of things potentially worth mentioning: first, only the bishop can receive tithing payments if it's not Sunday. Though you may be used to handing it to the second counselor who also happens to be your next door neighbor, he's not authorized to handle it outside of those hours on Sunday. Get it to your bishop.

Huh, I never knew that. Though my lack of knowledge may be partially due to the fact that back home Dad is 1st counselor, Grampa is 2nd (I still haven't gotten over how backwards that is), and I feel weird giving tithing to them--it's like, "here's some of the money back that you gave me for helping around the yard, except it isn't yours again." Here in Provo, my excuse is that I usually only see the bishopric on Sunday.

[Darth Fedora]

I keep a very detailed spreadsheet of all of my income because I am compulsive but I only pay tithing like once or twice a year because I am also lazy. I guess I can't really imagine God getting annoyed and withholding blessings because of that. I think it would only be a problem if you ever didn't have enough cash to cover all the tithing you owe or if it bothered you to have to write out a giant check every now and then.

[TheAnswerIs42]

I forgot to mention one other thing that bugs me about the yearly payment. My mom's first husband (later excommunicated, to give you a view of his church attitude) liked to pay it once a year for the express purpose of earning as much interest off it as he could in the meantime. So he had a separate account for it, and liked to see how much money he could earn from it before he had to turn it in.

That sounded like the wrong attitude to me. And my mom, actually. That didn't ever occur to my inlaws, so I don't blame them for that. I think that one is all in the intent of the thing.

[Dragon Lady]

I forgot to mention one other thing that bugs me about the yearly payment. My mom's first husband (later excommunicated, to give you a view of his church attitude) liked to pay it once a year for the express purpose of earning as much interest off it as he could in the meantime. So he had a separate account for it, and liked to see how much money he could earn from it before he had to turn it in.

That sounded like the wrong attitude to me. And my mom, actually. That didn't ever occur to my inlaws, so I don't blame them for that. I think that one is all in the intent of the thing.

If you pay yearly and wanted to ease your conscious on that, you could just take all your interest you earn off of it and pay that, too. Even if you don't pay it as tithing, you could put it in the ward missionary fund or something.

[bobtheenchantedone]

I often go many months between tithing payments, but I usually don't feel very bad about it at all. I deal mostly in cash (it's just how I like to run things) and so will have $200 in a tithing envelope waiting to be turned in instead of an extra $200 in my bank account that I need to remember to not use.

[Sky Bones]

This might be a good opportunity for me to explain how they do tithing here in Japan because it completely blew me away.

The bishop (or in our case branch president) gives you a bank book that looks like a lot of receipts, but is tied to one of your ward's/branch's bank account (I'm still trying to figure out exactly how...). Every time you pay tithing you fill out one of these receipts with all of your basic information (name, address, phone, etc.) and then there are sections for tithing, fast offerings, etc. Finally, you total it all up, rip out the yellow copy, keep the pink copy in your book, and head to the post office. You insert the "receipt" into this fancy machine (okay, technically it's an ATM, but SO much more), then a few seconds later it will open a little slot where you insert your money (or you can use your bank account via your card directly if you'd like, but we don't because we prefer to avoid as many buttons as possible).

Voilà!

The catch is, these special ATM machines are usually only open during the weekdays (at least, out here in the "country" they are). With that said, we usually set aside the money for tithing each month in an envelope, and then pay it every 2-3 months or so. Still, it's incredibly convenient and it's nice to not have to deal with money at all at the actual church building (okay, fine, it's a rented building).

It's going to be so weird going back to envelopes at church and handing it directly to the bishopric...

[thebigcheese]

Interesting. You guys are so techie over there. So there's something else I've wondered about...do you think we'll ever switch to paying tithing online? Or direct deposit?

[Dragon Lady]

Interesting. You guys are so techie over there. So there's something else I've wondered about...do you think we'll ever switch to paying tithing online? Or direct deposit?

You already can, but it's not recommended since they have to use tithing to pay the people to manage the system. Seems a bit self-defeating, no? But because there's already a system set up, I would guess that someday it'll be more commonplace.

[Wisteria]

I pay tithing every Sunday after payday as often as I can so I don't forget, but I also get paid every two weeks, so it's not an uncommon event. The way I decided to work things was to get two checking accounts set up- one for fixed expenses that I know will come around every month or so- rent, utilities, and tithing, mostly, and the second one for other living expenses, like groceries, gas, and other minor purchases. This way the money for tithing is in a place where I won't accidentally spend it on something else.