I can't even believe it . . . BYU basketball is so exciting this season . . . the thought of a #1 or 2 seed makes me almost giddy with happiness . . . I love, love basketball, and to see my alma mater do so well is dizzyingly exciting . . .
This is the year we have to win the MWC tournament. It just has to happen. Forget your collective midterms, people, and roadtrip it to Vegas . . .
Can the Cougars hold their own in the big leagues? Discuss.
#3!!
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thebigcheese
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Re: #3!!
Isn't that amazing? I'm really glad that I've had the chance to be here in Provo during this awesome season. Everyone is just so excited, and it's really fun to see that. Like the time when the football team beat Oklahoma and everybody was out honking and celebrating in the streets -- that was AWESOME. School spirit at its best. Now it's the basketball team that's making people just as crazy, and I think it rocks.
Anyway... I think we have a good team, and I think we can make it at least two or three rounds in the tournament. But after that, it's really hard to say. I wish I knew more about the other basketball teams -- but I'm really more of a football girl.
Anyway... I think we have a good team, and I think we can make it at least two or three rounds in the tournament. But after that, it's really hard to say. I wish I knew more about the other basketball teams -- but I'm really more of a football girl.
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Humble Master
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thebigcheese
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Re: #3!!
He's the most hated guy in Provo tonight...
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thebigcheese
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Re: #3!!
Comical...in a horribly depressing sort of way.
Re: #3!!
On the plus side, this article about advice for Davies from a former BYU football player who had been suspended for HC stuff is heart-warming ("There's a lesson to be learned. I don't know what it is, but come back."). And look how many people are attending this facebook event!
I hate that he put us in such a bad situation right before the tournaments, but I definitely don't hate him. I want him to figure this out and come back next year (unless he goes on a mission, which would be awesome for him, and in which case I'd still want him to come back afterwards).
I hate that he put us in such a bad situation right before the tournaments, but I definitely don't hate him. I want him to figure this out and come back next year (unless he goes on a mission, which would be awesome for him, and in which case I'd still want him to come back afterwards).
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thebigcheese
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Re: #3!!
I do feel bad for the guy -- it's bad enough to make a mistake. But to have it magnified on national news? I can't even imagine what that must be like.
As a side note, I find it refreshing that so many people are standing by BYU for enforcing the rules. Even people with no affiliation to BYU! I guess there are a few honest people left in the world.
As a side note, I find it refreshing that so many people are standing by BYU for enforcing the rules. Even people with no affiliation to BYU! I guess there are a few honest people left in the world.
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Dragon Lady
- Posts: 2332
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Re: #3!!
Eirene, that link is just taking to my facebook home page. What's the event called?
Re: #3!!
UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH
ERNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNnnnnnnnnnH
AAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIEEEE
Okay, fine, I'm "not active" or whatever the PC term is now within the Church, but darn it, I went to BYU, I loved Provo, and I freaking love college ball.
I actually cried. Imagining your alma mater making it to the Final Four and then being all but crushed ... yes, that actually is the perfect definition of dramatic irony.
All right, first of all, Mormons in general, and those at its flagship school in particular, ought not to fornicate, imbibe, inhale, covet, or emulate the muttonchops of the school's namesake. Alcohol, drugs, STDs, unflattering facial hair . . . I think we can all agree that these are in fact social dangers to young people in particular. I've seen enough of the "real world" to choose the dorky Colin Firth- and a capella-loving BYU undergrad than your jaded, vulgar frat boy any day. Hands down.
But guess what? BYU students drink (rarely). BYU students do drugs (even more rarely...never saw it myself, but I know in Orem it happens.) And Mormons really, really, really want to have sex, far far far more than any other group I've ever associated with. The forbidden pleasure? The copious reproduction? The general romanticism that comes with searching for a soulmate? There are many factors, but I think any school where NCMO is pursued with a vigilance usually reserved for MMORPGamers has "a palpable sexual tension," as my mom always (somewhat scornfully
) put it. The quads by the SWKT and the Helaman Halls buildings are literally littered with making out couples in the spring. And we like being "chaste"? No, THAT'S WHY WE PAIR UP SO YOUNG, DUH.
I've known many, many sober, drug-free, clean-shaven BYU-ites. But honestly, I'd say 90% of the single student body is heavily making out, much more than would be "officially approved," 50% rounding the bases even more, and at LEAST 1 in 3 going all the way. Too high a benchmark? One in four, fine. But go read my epic on the Honor Code in the 1930s and you'll see that what would be well into 2nd and 3rd bases was hardly seen as prurient by at least half the population.
Fine, it's a violation. Get your butt dragged in front of the HCO police or your bishop, or whatever. Personal repentance/purity/integrity is a hard, tricky thing, and it's easy to be a horny 19-year-old who has sex, not so easy to not. Godlike qualities of restraint, respect for women, and childlessness are no doubt fostered by abstinence.
My theory is that most Mormons avoid the consequences of sex by having what I'd refer to as "Mormon sex:" dry humping, heavy petting, making out, the ubiquitous p0rn dilemma. Girls, is a guy who is some kind of porn fetishist locked away in his basement weirder/more sinful to you than a guy who just happens to have sex? Um, the former seems more damaging to me, but we don't see all the porn users on the basketball team getting kicked off.
Ours (for it is still mine, I suppose) is a religion which loves to envision lines. The chalk circle. But it's more of a chalk gradient in real life. Where does sexual intent begin and chastity end? The line between personal and public integrity? The student athlete who makes one misstep and is publicly outed, versus the academic scholar who is reprimanded and privately forgiven?
If you haven't read The Scarlet Letter, do. The contrast between those whose morality is brought into shame publicly or privately is great, and for all that, may be worse for those suffering from great, unconfessed guilt. I think it does a lot to dispel the virginity=righteousness myth, though.
I don't need a rehash of 17,895,678 Internet comments about whether BYU was justified/how very justified it was. It's an institution which can do as it pleases--it will prepare the kid for a life in pro sports, anyway. (Tiger Woods, anyone?) I AM, however, interested to hear whether you think sex is indeed the #1 "major" honor code violation, and whether the line between "everything but" and "all the way" is as it was when I was there. Anyone else have roommates who essentially had live-in boyfriends? (I did.) Anyone else met more gay guys than bearded ones? (I did. They all come out on blogs, it seems.) Anyone think Mormons have essentially been sex fiends since the days of polygamy. (I do! O_O)
ERNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNnnnnnnnnnH
AAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIEEEE
Okay, fine, I'm "not active" or whatever the PC term is now within the Church, but darn it, I went to BYU, I loved Provo, and I freaking love college ball.
I actually cried. Imagining your alma mater making it to the Final Four and then being all but crushed ... yes, that actually is the perfect definition of dramatic irony.
All right, first of all, Mormons in general, and those at its flagship school in particular, ought not to fornicate, imbibe, inhale, covet, or emulate the muttonchops of the school's namesake. Alcohol, drugs, STDs, unflattering facial hair . . . I think we can all agree that these are in fact social dangers to young people in particular. I've seen enough of the "real world" to choose the dorky Colin Firth- and a capella-loving BYU undergrad than your jaded, vulgar frat boy any day. Hands down.
But guess what? BYU students drink (rarely). BYU students do drugs (even more rarely...never saw it myself, but I know in Orem it happens.) And Mormons really, really, really want to have sex, far far far more than any other group I've ever associated with. The forbidden pleasure? The copious reproduction? The general romanticism that comes with searching for a soulmate? There are many factors, but I think any school where NCMO is pursued with a vigilance usually reserved for MMORPGamers has "a palpable sexual tension," as my mom always (somewhat scornfully
) put it. The quads by the SWKT and the Helaman Halls buildings are literally littered with making out couples in the spring. And we like being "chaste"? No, THAT'S WHY WE PAIR UP SO YOUNG, DUH.I've known many, many sober, drug-free, clean-shaven BYU-ites. But honestly, I'd say 90% of the single student body is heavily making out, much more than would be "officially approved," 50% rounding the bases even more, and at LEAST 1 in 3 going all the way. Too high a benchmark? One in four, fine. But go read my epic on the Honor Code in the 1930s and you'll see that what would be well into 2nd and 3rd bases was hardly seen as prurient by at least half the population.
Fine, it's a violation. Get your butt dragged in front of the HCO police or your bishop, or whatever. Personal repentance/purity/integrity is a hard, tricky thing, and it's easy to be a horny 19-year-old who has sex, not so easy to not. Godlike qualities of restraint, respect for women, and childlessness are no doubt fostered by abstinence.
My theory is that most Mormons avoid the consequences of sex by having what I'd refer to as "Mormon sex:" dry humping, heavy petting, making out, the ubiquitous p0rn dilemma. Girls, is a guy who is some kind of porn fetishist locked away in his basement weirder/more sinful to you than a guy who just happens to have sex? Um, the former seems more damaging to me, but we don't see all the porn users on the basketball team getting kicked off.
Ours (for it is still mine, I suppose) is a religion which loves to envision lines. The chalk circle. But it's more of a chalk gradient in real life. Where does sexual intent begin and chastity end? The line between personal and public integrity? The student athlete who makes one misstep and is publicly outed, versus the academic scholar who is reprimanded and privately forgiven?
If you haven't read The Scarlet Letter, do. The contrast between those whose morality is brought into shame publicly or privately is great, and for all that, may be worse for those suffering from great, unconfessed guilt. I think it does a lot to dispel the virginity=righteousness myth, though.
I don't need a rehash of 17,895,678 Internet comments about whether BYU was justified/how very justified it was. It's an institution which can do as it pleases--it will prepare the kid for a life in pro sports, anyway. (Tiger Woods, anyone?) I AM, however, interested to hear whether you think sex is indeed the #1 "major" honor code violation, and whether the line between "everything but" and "all the way" is as it was when I was there. Anyone else have roommates who essentially had live-in boyfriends? (I did.) Anyone else met more gay guys than bearded ones? (I did. They all come out on blogs, it seems.) Anyone think Mormons have essentially been sex fiends since the days of polygamy. (I do! O_O)
Re: #3!!
ETA: there's talk on the Series of Tubes that this is good for the Church, what with the Googling and whatnot. But let me tell you, if I was a moderately liberal, teetotalling, generally nice person (not unlikely to investigate the Church if I hadn't been born into it, in other words), this would make me think the Church is more fundamentalist than it almost ever is in practice, and scare me off. I just don't like the whole idea of "outing" people at all, unless it's Wall Street bankers with our money, or something. Is BYU really some great marketing tool for the Church? Most moderate to liberal Mormons outside Utah county see it as sort of the weird, somewhat zealous cousin in the family. Of course, this is coming form me, who could have written a book called I Was a Teenage Zealot. Sixteen-year-old me probably would have emotionally argued in a seminary showdown that Brandon Davies/smokers/Obama supporters are going to hell.
Re: #3!!
I believe these statistics are complete BS. I'm not sure 90% of the student body is even dating, much less "heavily making out." Your idea that 25% of single students have had sex also seems seriously inflated.Portia wrote:But honestly, I'd say 90% of the single student body is heavily making out, much more than would be "officially approved," 50% rounding the bases even more, and at LEAST 1 in 3 going all the way. Too high a benchmark? One in four, fine.
Are chastity issues rare? No. But I don't think you can take the stories you've heard first hand and extrapolate them to the rest of the single student population.
Am I the only one who heard he got his girlfriend pregnant? Pretty sure you can't go on a mission after that... yes?Eirene wrote: (unless he goes on a mission, which would be awesome for him, and in which case I'd still want him to come back afterwards).
Re: #3!!
Well, I have no evidence, just the rumor mill. Like this article from Dooce:
Dooce wrote:Yes, he made a mistake. And according to reports, that mistake was getting his girlfriend pregnant. So not only has he let down his school and his community, and most importantly himself, he has a pregnant girlfriend. That's a whole other hornet's nest of complications.
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TheAnswerIs42
- Posts: 962
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:13 pm
- Location: Pleasant Grove, Utah
Re: #3!!
I don't think any of us can make any claims about the number of people who do x, y or z. I've heard some people who saw a lot of it - and I saw absolutely none of it, in any of my roomates, in any of my friends. Just lots of quick weddings. Call it luck of the draw, call it running in different circles, whatever. But we can't make statistics on things people won't admit to anyone.