Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

I was reading a news article which was discussing the difference between "Mormon" and "LDS:" that is, the culture, and the religion.

I would argue that one could be Mormon without necessarily being active in the LDS church. Possible examples:

Ethnically: if you are seventh-generation Mormon (like me), that's a pretty huge part of your identity
Culturally: if you watch Divine Comedy clips on YouTube, love family history and are under the age of 50, want a child before you turn 25, have played the piano since the age of 3 and collect board games... well, you're not normal, that's for sure. Good chance you're "Mormon" if you were at least raised in the Church
Identity(ally?): Various Jack Mormons, gay Mormons, creepy-southern-Utah-polygamist Mormons struggle with this one all the time. I think I can relate: sure, when I go to, say, my BIL's missionary homecoming, OTHERS may see this as some sort of "reactivation," but I never stopped being "Mormon" ... I never became anything else. You can certainly be a Jew or a Christian or a Catholic and not go to church every Sunday.

Of course having a calling, a temple recommend, being BYU-worthy are salient parts of people's lives . . . and of course I'm not arguing against that. Clearly there IS a difference between the person who goes once a year and the person who goes fifty times a year to any given church/activity/whathaveyou.

But on the other hand, I feel like there's this weird fracturing sometimes . . . I guess I don't see if someone doesn't show up at some point, that they "stopped" being Mormon at all, unless they wrote a resignation letter to Church headquarters. "Ex-" implies a complete break, like an ex-wife or something. Isn't this the whole discourse of the Church? Trying to get people back in the fold? I remember in my various leadership positions talking about this ALL THE TIME. If you are not "Mormon" by being inactive, then what are you when the missionaries and your parents and your friends in their temple weddings try to persuade you back? It's silly to pretend that you are just "nothing," like some hipster who pretends to not like any song that gets covered on Glee.

So, what to you is the difference? Can someone be Mormon if they still think they could join up again, but haven't decided? If they're indistinguishable from Mormons in every other way but just don't believe the church is true?

I think from a sociological point of view, it's about "in" groups and "out" groups. Which, if you read the Book of Mormon, it seems that getting people back was a big deal. Are you only a "true" Mormon if you never question, never mess up, follow all the checklist boxes? I know about 4 people who have done that: all lovely, but a pretty small number!

I guess this is all to say that when I have lived outside Utah, I am often hesitant to classify myself this way: it seems a bit like saying you're a vegetarian when you eat pepperoni pizza then feel bad about it. But I think the conversations it starts are worthwhile: people have silly ideas, and anyway, they would probably get a better view of my personality than me just admitting it than not. Once I start denying my family is, then that's where it gets REALLY stupid, because c'mon... that's just lying.

One of my friends from France who worked with me at a summer camp said he was Catholic, but he wasn't so sure he believed in God. I know to a lot of LDS people, this seems strange, if not hypocritical... but trust me, if you go to Catholic school, learn the catechism, celebrate Catholic holidays... then you're Catholic in a meaningful sense.

I remember reading My Name Is Asher Lev, and thinking it was one of the best books about this weird chasm between what you believe and how you were brought up. Something like that for Mormonism that was not snarky, rude, written by someone who isn't even Mormon, or in a juvenile voice would be nice. I have yet to find it.

What do you think? Even if you're a BYU poster child, do you advertise your religion? It seems to have to do with extroverted/introverted personality? Do you have friends/relatives who still claim part of their "Mormon identity" though they aren't really active LDS people? Do you feel offended if someone you think is clearly flaunting Mormon codes (a sexually active gay person, a theologically heterodox blogger, a polygamist wife) claims "Mormonism" for herself?

I think this issue arises because in the LDS church, there is an expectation for all members to be active and participating weekly -- but if you look to other churches, you will find that this is not really the case. For example, the Catholics who only show up for Christmas and Easter mass. They are still Catholic, right? And everyone still thinks of them as Catholic, right?

So, technically the person doesn't stop being Mormon, but they stopped acting Mormon. Hence the term inactive. They have distanced themselves from the Church, so I find it interesting that they would continue to claim the title. I mean, you certainly have the right to claim it, but do you really feel like a member? Even though you don't believe or participate? I guess I'm just surprised that anyone would continue to identify with the Church, given those circumstances.

I think a lapsed Mormon is still a Mormon so long as they identify that way. It's like somebody who becomes a U.S. citizen; just because they are American now doesn't mean they aren't French! Even though they in no way feel any sort of loyalty to the French Republic doesn't mean that their Frenchness isn't a major part of life -- they still eat French food, know and love French people, talk with a French accent, are keenly interested in France, answer that they are French-American if asked where they are from, and generally feel like their former country is a large part of their identity. They just don't owe it any loyalty anymore.

The same thing applies to the Church. Lapsed Mormons still eat Mormon foods (pot roast, funeral potatoes, etc), know and love Mormons as people, talk about religion in Mormon terms (for instance, using the word atonement is a very Mormon thing to do), follow Mormons and Mormonism in the news closely, could feel comfortable saying "well I grew up Mormon, but now I don't practice any religion/I'm Catholic/Presbyterian" if pressed about it, and generally feel like Mormonism is a major part of how they ended up the way they are. Sure, not everybody fits every one of these examples, but by and large I'd say that even the most hard core person on exmormon.org would unconsciously fit most of these profiles.

CJ, you said it much better than I could have. I totally agree with that. I guess it is because even though I am unsure on the hard doctrines of the Church right now, I still feel like Mormonism, the Church, the culture, and more, influences me on a day-to-day basis. Maybe I am not what some people consider "active," but it is still a part of my identity. I've always found it a little unfair that people in other religions can identify with their religion without necessarily attending church, while many people who are LDS don't think that is possible for LDS people.

I think this has to do with the fact that this religion is a far more active one than most others to begin with. Three hours of church, weekly get-togethers outside of church, expected familial meetings weekly, expected scriptural reading daily, etc.

As to the question at large, how would I advertise it? I'd recommend to people to use the phrase Craig said "I grew up Mormon." This instantly both identifies one as having been influenced by that religion but distancing oneself from it.

I also agree. Saying that you "grew up Mormon" pretty much covers all the bases.

Side note -- it seems like more and more people on this board are saying that they're inactive / unsure. How many active, faithful members do we actually have here?

Marduk wrote:I think this has to do with the fact that this religion is a far more active one than most others to begin with. Three hours of church, weekly get-togethers outside of church, expected familial meetings weekly, expected scriptural reading daily, etc.

We're also a very young church, so we haven't had time to develop a distinct but nonobservant culture.

thebigcheese wrote:I also agree. Saying that you "grew up Mormon" pretty much covers all the bases.

Side note -- it seems like more and more people on this board are saying that they're inactive / unsure. How many active, faithful members do we actually have here?

Are we supposed to come out and shout out? Do a poll? This seems like an … odd question. But I'd wager a guess that the majority on here are active.

The majority of current writers are active, faithful LDS members. There are only a handful of us... less sure people... As for readers, I couldn't say, but I'd guess DL is right.

I'm an active, card carrying member of the Church. I of course have my doubts and questions and disagreements, but I would call myself (and be called by others) a good member of the Church. Would I feel comfortable standing up and saying "I know with every fiber of my being that this Church is true?" I don't think so, but I do feel comfortable saying that I have complete faith that it is -- which is basically what knowing is all about, right?

This is probably a little bit irreverent, but there you have it. I went to a fireside the other night and the lady said she knew the church was true in every cell of her body. And my mind, of its own accord started thinking things like, "Every cell in my body knows the church is true. Except this one right here on the bottom left of my spleen. But we're all working hard to convert it."

Dragon Lady wrote:This is probably a little bit irreverent, but there you have it. I went to a fireside the other night and the lady said she knew the church was true in every cell of her body. And my mind, of its own accord started thinking things like, "Every cell in my body knows the church is true. Except this one right here on the bottom left of my spleen. But we're all working hard to convert it."

I think that all the time. Luckily our singles ward is a little less dramatic, perhaps, than other wards (in, like, every way) so I'm not overly tempted. (It's when I visit the family ward that the fibers of my being start rolling their eyes.)

Dragon Lady wrote:"Every cell in my body knows the church is true. Except this one right here on the bottom left of my spleen. But we're all working hard to convert it."

I just posted this as my facebook status. Just so's you know.

bobtheenchantedone wrote:

Dragon Lady wrote:"Every cell in my body knows the church is true. Except this one right here on the bottom left of my spleen. But we're all working hard to convert it."

I just posted this as my facebook status. Just so's you know.

Brilliant! And now we can be friends on facebook.

And I just copied Bob's status. I've been doing that a lot recently. Sorry, bob.

Craig Jessop wrote:And I just copied Bob's status. I've been doing that a lot recently. Sorry, bob.

This is when I could use stalker skills and figure out who you are. But… I don't care that much? I mostly added bob because she told me her real name and she came over to my house. But we can still be friends, right? If not Facebook friends?

Also, I feel awesome that I am so quoted. [beams]

Craig Jessop wrote:And I just copied Bob's status. I've been doing that a lot recently. Sorry, bob.

I'm just too brilliant.

Dragon Lady wrote:

Craig Jessop wrote:And I just copied Bob's status. I've been doing that a lot recently. Sorry, bob.

This is when I could use stalker skills and figure out who you are. But… I don't care that much? I mostly added bob because she told me her real name and she came over to my house. But we can still be friends, right? If not Facebook friends?

Also, I feel awesome that I am so quoted. [beams]

Ha, my privacy settings are set at paranoid. It would be quite hard. However, it wasn't hard to figure out who you were, since bob just used your real name while commenting on my status.

Craig Jessop wrote:

Dragon Lady wrote:

Craig Jessop wrote:And I just copied Bob's status. I've been doing that a lot recently. Sorry, bob.

This is when I could use stalker skills and figure out who you are. But… I don't care that much? I mostly added bob because she told me her real name and she came over to my house. But we can still be friends, right? If not Facebook friends?

Also, I feel awesome that I am so quoted. [beams]

Ha, my privacy settings are set at paranoid. It would be quite hard. However, it wasn't hard to figure out who you were, since bob just used your real name while commenting on my status.

...

Oops.

You didn't already know?