Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/62690/

Oh, I have lots of thoughts about Etsy.

I think the biggest issue with Etsy is that the supply of people (mostly women) who want to make and sell things vastly outweighs the demand for such items. So you can't set up an Etsy store and assume that the masses will flock to buy things from you.

The people on Etsy who have pretty successful shops seem to sell things that are unique enough and require enough skill / artistry to create that they don't have a lot of competition, or people who sell a high volume of things at a low price point. A well designed shop and good product photography go without saying.

Etsy shops come up on knitting forums, a lot, because a lot of knitters price their work so low that they're effectively paying themselves sweatshop wages for their work. That's not only bad for the knitter in question, but it's bad for all of the other knitters because it drives the prices down for their work. Of course, if you paid yourself minimum wages for your knitting, an adult sweater would probably end up costing hundreds of dollars, well out of the price range of most buyers. So, for some types of crafts, I think you have to accept that there isn't a market to support selling finished objects. (However, there's often a market for products a bit higher up the chain, such as patterns or yarn.)

Anyway, if I was giving advice to Momma Quail, I'd tell her that setting up an Etsy shop is a lot like self-publishing; you have the selling mechanism in place, but you still have to do all the marketing and business management work yourself and you have to decide if you're making enough money from your efforts to make it all worth it. Also, I'd suggest looking around on Etsy at other people who are making the same kinds of crafts she's interested in to see if there's an Etsy group she can join for people who make that craft.

I just want to say I am totally going to give some OPINIONS on this matter... later. As an owner of an Etsy shop that brought in over $1000 last month, I have much to say.

bobtheenchantedone wrote:I just want to say I am totally going to give some OPINIONS on this matter... later. As an owner of an Etsy shop that brought in over $1000 last month, I have much to say.

Oooh, I'd love to hear what you have to say.

bobtheenchantedone wrote:I just want to say I am totally going to give some OPINIONS on this matter... later. As an owner of an Etsy shop that brought in over $1000 last month, I have much to say.

Bob, will you be my sugar-momma? I won't make you eat weird foods like Marduk does. Promise.

bobtheenchantedone wrote:I just want to say I am totally going to give some OPINIONS on this matter... later. As an owner of an Etsy shop that brought in over $1000 last month, I have much to say.

What?? I clearly need to get into friendship bracelet business. I've only made over a thousand bucks once during the run of my little business, and that month nearly killed me. I don't have an Etsy presence. Maybe that's the ticket.

On the other hand, any more business actually would kill me.

In conclusion: good work.

UnluckyStuntman wrote: Bob, will you be my sugar-momma? I won't make you eat weird foods like Marduk does. Promise.

I will let her be your sugar-momma if I can make YOU eat weird foods.

There is a flip side that you don't often hear about. Let's say your product really takes off. Now what? All of a sudden, you can't keep up with the demand and all your time is consumed by it. Are you going to hire someone to help you? Can you afford to hire someone to help you? Are you even enjoying it anymore? Or has your little pet project gotten out of control?

A while back, my husband read a book called the E-Myth. I never read it personally, but I thought it had an interesting premise. It talks about how there are 3 different kinds of people in the business world. Entrepreneurs, managers, and technicians. Entrepreneurs enjoy the business side of business. Managers enjoy the people side of business. Technicians enjoy the skilled side of business. Here's the problem -- you have lots of technicians out there who are really good at making widgets, so they naturally think, "Maybe I should run a widget business!"

Then after doing business for a little while, they realize that they actually hate business. In fact, they CAN'T STAND business. They just like making widgets. So, basically, the conclusion is that you shouldn't start a business unless you actually enjoy doing business. Just because you enjoy baking doesn't mean you should open up a bakery. Just because you enjoy cooking doesn't mean you should open your own restaurant.

Marduk wrote:

UnluckyStuntman wrote: Bob, will you be my sugar-momma? I won't make you eat weird foods like Marduk does. Promise.

I will let her be your sugar-momma if I can make YOU eat weird foods.

...deal. Bob, whaddya think?

UnluckyStuntman wrote:

Marduk wrote:

UnluckyStuntman wrote: Bob, will you be my sugar-momma? I won't make you eat weird foods like Marduk does. Promise.

I will let her be your sugar-momma if I can make YOU eat weird foods.

...deal. Bob, whaddya think?

Psh, if she's going to be anyone's sugar momma other than Marduk's, it's going to be me. I bought her donuts this weekend. That is more donuts than you've ever bought her, friend.

I am coming back to this with a substantive answer, I swear, it's just 11:30 right now and I really need to get to bed.

Also I am kinda stuck being Duckie's sugar momma, 'cause he's been my sugar daddy for so long and so he deserves something in return. But I would be happy to be the sugar momma of both of you, Black Sheep and Unlucky, if only I could.

Okay okay okay. I have time to say words now.

My first comment is that no matter what, some people are going to think that having an Etsy business is ridiculous. Reactions to my Etsy business have varied from from sincere good wishes to condescending "well, that's a nice hobby" to the frustrating "quit playing around a get a REAL job." No one believed for a moment that I could make money from an Etsy shop, and some still don't despite evidence to the contrary. So be prepared for some obnoxious comments, even from people who you think should be supporting you. There used to be entire threads on the Etsy forums dedicated to complaining about what unsupportive comments boyfriends, husbands, friends, and parents were making that day.

That said, be sure you know what you are getting into with an Etsy business. For one thing, it can take a long time for your shop to have much success. As Katya said, Etsy basically just provides the venue; you have to do all the advertising. I started my shop in September of 2009, started taking it seriously early last year, actually registered as a business and really got to work in the middle of last summer, and only in the last few months have we started selling a lot. TBC also has a very good point. I'm lucky in that I enjoy running a business almost as much as I enjoy making the products.

And running a business is difficult. Even before we became busier there was lots and lots to do. As I am self-employed, I am supposed to file taxes every quarter as well as every year with everyone else. I made my sister my employee and now have to do W2s and pay unemployment and withholding taxes. When sold, items need to be prepared for shipping (and sometimes made), envelopes need to be addressed, and the post office must be visited. I have to do frequent photo shoots of merchandise, edit the photos, name and arrange them in my "merchandise" folder so I can find them, and then list items on Etsy. Right now we're at about 140 listings, and most of them need some revamping that I have no time or inclination to do. And then once you get more popular, there are convos and emails to answer, more items to make and ship, more taxes to do, more materials to buy, and more space in your home needed for all of these items you purchase and all the work you do.

I can even say a bit about being a stay at home mom and running an Etsy business; basically, read all the stuff above that I do, and then add change dirty diaper, make breakfast/lunch/dinner for everyone, clean the house, drive people places, play with children, help with homework... and it goes on. As I am not a mother, only living at home where my youngest sister is two and the next two are on ADHD medication and no one knows how to do chores, I was able to tell my mother that she would now have to schedule me if she wanted free babysitting and I now work in seclusion in my room. Being the actual mother would mean you couldn't do that, and so you would need to work around your children and possibly get some outside, probably paid help.

Actual items themselves are another problem. Katya made some good points here. First, it is true that there are lots of people on Etsy selling lots of things. My sister and I realized this pretty soon after I started taking Etsy seriously, and have had the good fortune to come up with some great and completely original ideas. Most of our products you cannot get elsewhere. For example, no one else on Etsy makes friendship bracelets with charms on them. Also, I prefer to make really wide bracelets, even taking smaller patterns and doubling or tripling them. Few people have the time or inclination to frequently make bracelets that are 1 inch or wider, while that's my bread and butter. My sister's duct tape rose rings are a huge draw, and while there are others available, they are quite different and we think ours are better. There's also the fact that we were the first to do many things, so even if others copy us, we are better at it, more well-known, and in some cases have copyright.

Pricing is also a huge issue. Even though we are among the most expensive friendship bracelet suppliers out there, I am still not getting paid as much as I would like. I have been slowly raising prices for months to try to get to a better price point, and I have learned some expensive and time-consuming lessons. (We're currently working on a wholesale order where I undercharged by two or three dollars per bracelet on a 300 bracelet order. Ouch.) Though there are many items that aren't really going to go over well, such as Katya's example of hand-knitted adult sweaters, there will always be something you can do in your area of expertise. Something else to keep in mind is that the general consensus on Etsy is that if you aren't selling you should raise, not lower, your prices. People want to know they are getting a quality item, and charging more helps assure them that they are (just make sure you deliver a product that is worth that price). My brother once laughed at me because I mentioned there was a seller selling almost the exact same bracelet I had made, but for about $14 less. "And who's selling?" he asked, expecting to teach me a lesson. "I am," I replied. Shut him up that time. : )

You do also have to keep in mind what TBC said: what if you really take off? I currently have 3 contractors doing wholesale and odds-and-ends work, and I'm looking for one or two more. My materials and shipping supplies are overflowing from the few places I have to put them. I have to go to two or three different stores to buy supplies in the quantities I want (I'm constantly cleaning out the local Michaels). And while I love being able to choose my own hours to work, some days those hours are "all of them."

Awesome summary. I can commiserate with the home warehouse part. For a few months, I was doing eBay sales for my brother-in-law's business, and our apartment is STILL full of random inventory. It takes up a lot of space, and we only have a one bedroom apartment. We have engine parts in our living room, under our bed, next to the dresser, in our hallway, in our storage room, and pretty much anywhere else we can cram them. It's a pretty big inconvenience, especially when you want to invite people over.

Bob, I'm curious: after subtracting out the cost of supplies and shipping and any other expenses, and after paying taxes, how much are you (personally) making per hour doing this? (If that's information you're okay sharing.) I'm curious how this compares to other jobs, as far as pay goes, and I'm not sure how that $1000 in a month breaks down when everything's factored in.

TheBlackSheep wrote: Psh, if she's going to be anyone's sugar momma other than Marduk's, it's going to be me. I bought her donuts this weekend. That is more donuts than you've ever bought her, friend.

You don't have to be all super-Nintendo about it TBS

Laser Jock wrote:Bob, I'm curious: after subtracting out the cost of supplies and shipping and any other expenses, and after paying taxes, how much are you (personally) making per hour doing this? (If that's information you're okay sharing.) I'm curious how this compares to other jobs, as far as pay goes, and I'm not sure how that $1000 in a month breaks down when everything's factored in.

If you count everything I do for the business... not much, really. Hence the raising prices of everything which has been going on for months. And the outsourcing of less important work. However, I am fine with getting paid less per hour if it means I can do those hours in my pajamas, or in my room, or while watching Marduk play computer games, and at any time of day or night. I may be giving up more per hour, but I do it consciously. And hopefully in the future I will be getting much more per hour, especially as we will be adding more tutorials which are made once and then make money for us forever.

As far as the $1000 goes, I netted (after tithing and materials and everything, but not after taxes) about $460. My sister netted somewhere in the $200 range. I haven't completed the books yet, which is why these numbers are approximations.