Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/64505/

2 thoughts about this.

1. A cocktail party is not typically the kind of event where people are going to be getting ridiculously drunk. If someone invites you to a "Girl Drink Drunk Party" or to "S***-Faced Tuesday", then, yeah, it's not going to be fun times if you are a non-drinker (and the people that are drinking at those events won't even remember the "fun" they had). But there is really no need to be uncomfortable at a social event where people are going to be having a drink or two. I imagine that it's hard the first few times you're at an event with drinking if you've never been around anyone consuming alcohol before, but there are plenty of people who drink and aren't out of control about it. I know a lot of people who have been raised in the church (or in other non-drinking religions) who have never been around drinking, but the world is not this huge dichotomy where people either don't drink or they drink to the point of puking and dancing on tables. Lots of people have a beer or two because they enjoy it, but that's it. And they aren't obsessing about what is in other people's glasses. You really don't have to be uncomfortable and people won't think you're a freak or start spreading rumors about how that probably wasn't just Coke in your glass because you were at a cocktail party.

2. Lots of people other than Mormons don't drink, including (but not limited to) Muslims, various other religious groups, designated drivers, people on certain medications, people with certain medical conditions, people who just don't care for the taste of alcohol, people who are recovering alcoholics, people who grew up with alcoholism in their families, and people who think it's unhealthy to drink. At any given event where there is casual social drinking, it is extremely unlikely that you will be the only person there who isn't drinking alcohol.

I think the questioner was focusing more on the scripture's advice to not only avoid evil, but also to avoid the appearance of evil. It's not so much that they feared that others would judge them, but that they didn't want anyone to think that they were drinking in order to be a witness of Christ at all times.

Personally, I don't think drinking qualifies as evil, and as long as you conduct yourself in an appropriate way, no one's going to assume you're drinking in the first place. This guy needs to chill out or get a sandwich board that says "I'm trying to avoid the appearance of evil, so please don't assume I'm drinking."

Dragon Lady wrote:I think the questioner was focusing more on the scripture's advice to not only avoid evil, but also to avoid the appearance of evil. It's not so much that they feared that others would judge them, but that they didn't want anyone to think that they were drinking in order to be a witness of Christ at all times.

You do realize that scripture is generally misinterpreted, right? A more accurate translation would be "avoid all kinds of evil" (with no special emphasis on avoiding looking bad).

Plus, the people answering the question were wrong about milk being the only drink the person can drink. PLENTY of alcoholic beverages include milk or cream (which i abhor because it just feels gross in my stomach).

ps to Nerdgirl: I have been to plenty of "let's get drunk!!!!!" parties, and I remember all the fun I had. Including getting into a cupcake fight (purple frosting does NOT come out of clothes, btw)

Imogen wrote: ps to Nerdgirl: I have been to plenty of "let's get drunk!!!!!" parties, and I remember all the fun I had. Including getting into a cupcake fight (purple frosting does NOT come out of clothes, btw)

Yeah, that's a good point. Now that I'm not in grad school anymore, I need to remember that "let's get drunk" to most regular people means "Let's get rid of our social inhibitions and have some fun" and not "Let's sit in a dark room and drink absinthe until we pass out and forget how much our lives suck."

Imogen wrote:Plus, the people answering the question were wrong about milk being the only drink the person can drink. PLENTY of alcoholic beverages include milk or cream (which i abhor because it just feels gross in my stomach).

Include milk or cream? Or look like milk or cream? The point being, if you saw someone drinking milk, could you mistake it as another alcoholic beverage?

Katya wrote:

Dragon Lady wrote:I think the questioner was focusing more on the scripture's advice to not only avoid evil, but also to avoid the appearance of evil. It's not so much that they feared that others would judge them, but that they didn't want anyone to think that they were drinking in order to be a witness of Christ at all times.

You do realize that scripture is generally misinterpreted, right? A more accurate translation would be "avoid all kinds of evil" (with no special emphasis on avoiding looking bad).

a) I feel like I have a rebuttal for this. Something about Peter or Paul. But I just woke up (don't judge me) and my brain is still fuzzy. And slightly marred with a headache. I'll have to do some looking later. But I have an 83% clear memory of discussing this in a religion class. Unfortunately I place this memory in one of my least favorite religion classes where it was "the gospel according to Bro. ____" (I've blocked his name from my memory apparently) and even if the discussions was had, I can't guarantee that it was a valid conclusion anyway. I'll get back to you.

b) Whether or not you're right, a large portion of church members only read English and don't know better translations of the Greek. And are taught their whole lives that it really does mean to avoid looking like you're doing something evil so that the church isn't judged unfairly. I know I've had such lessons. (I'm not saying those lessons are correct; false doctrine has been innocently taught on a myriad of topics. Just saying that I still think that's what the OP meant.)

NerdGirl wrote:

Imogen wrote: ps to Nerdgirl: I have been to plenty of "let's get drunk!!!!!" parties, and I remember all the fun I had. Including getting into a cupcake fight (purple frosting does NOT come out of clothes, btw)

Yeah, that's a good point. Now that I'm not in grad school anymore, I need to remember that "let's get drunk" to most regular people means "Let's get rid of our social inhibitions and have some fun" and not "Let's sit in a dark room and drink absinthe until we pass out and forget how much our lives suck."

You know, I know people do that (drink until they black out on purpose) but it just seems so....pointless to me. I like to drink and have a good time, but I've only blacked out once, and it was TERRIFYING to "wake up" and not remember what had just happened. People who do that just confuse me and make me uncomfortable.

Also, my life has never sucked so much that I wanted to forget it.

Dragon Lady wrote:

Katya wrote:

Dragon Lady wrote:I think the questioner was focusing more on the scripture's advice to not only avoid evil, but also to avoid the appearance of evil. It's not so much that they feared that others would judge them, but that they didn't want anyone to think that they were drinking in order to be a witness of Christ at all times.

You do realize that scripture is generally misinterpreted, right? A more accurate translation would be "avoid all kinds of evil" (with no special emphasis on avoiding looking bad).

a) I feel like I have a rebuttal for this. Something about Peter or Paul. But I just woke up (don't judge me) and my brain is still fuzzy. And slightly marred with a headache. I'll have to do some looking later. But I have an 83% clear memory of discussing this in a religion class. Unfortunately I place this memory in one of my least favorite religion classes where it was "the gospel according to Bro. ____" (I've blocked his name from my memory apparently) and even if the discussions was had, I can't guarantee that it was a valid conclusion anyway. I'll get back to you.

I'd be curious to hear the rebuttal, when you get to it.

Dragon Lady wrote:b) Whether or not you're right, a large portion of church members only read English and don't know better translations of the Greek.

Which is an unfortunate side effect of being so KJV-focused, in my opinion.

Dragon Lady wrote:And are taught their whole lives that it really does mean to avoid looking like you're doing something evil so that the church isn't judged unfairly. I know I've had such lessons. (I'm not saying those lessons are correct; false doctrine has been innocently taught on a myriad of topics. Just saying that I still think that's what the OP meant.)

I agree and I don't mean to judge the OP's interpretation of this scripture by proxy. However, Jesus (and others) warned against hypocrisy and judging by outward appearance so often that I'm surprised that anyone familiar with the rest of the scriptures would put such an emphasis on appearance, even if that's what that particular scripture seems to say.

Of course, as NerdGirl pointed out, he's probably completely unfamiliar with drinking culture and so very worried about how he'll come across, which is understandable.

When I visited my in-laws in Russia this summer we had dinner one night and his parents and grandma all told me about the first time they had gotten drunk! (Not together, obviously.) It was very entertaining. They then recommended not getting drunk.

That's my only contribution. I pretty much agree with NerdGirl's post.

mic0 wrote:When I visited my in-laws in Russia this summer we had dinner one night and his parents and grandma all told me about the first time they had gotten drunk! (Not together, obviously.) It was very entertaining. They then recommended not getting drunk.

That's my only contribution. I pretty much agree with NerdGirl's post.

Isn't there a joke in Russian about the similarities of the words вода and водка?

Isn't alcoholism a huge problem in Russia?

wait, I'm interested in this. Wasn't there some problem in Corinthians about not eating meat that had been sacrificed to idols because some members thought it was bad, therefore even though it wasn't inherently bad, you should avoid it?

Whistler wrote:wait, I'm interested in this. Wasn't there some problem in Corinthians about not eating meat that had been sacrificed to idols because some members thought it was bad, therefore even though it wasn't inherently bad, you should avoid it?

That might be part of my rebuttal! Maybe? I dunno. I've been at the optometrist all morning and my eyes are still recovering from dilation, so I haven't done any research yet. I promise, Katya, I will.

I went to an informal business event with about 50 people yesterday where "food and drinks" were provided. This turned out to mean meat, hamburger buns, and beer. Anybody who didn't drink beer just ended up going thirsty. I was surprised there weren't any alternatives, since there are plenty of people who don't drink for the reasons NerdGirl described.

In my opinion, the worst thing about being a non-drinker at a cocktail hour is that (1) everyone's breath starts to stink and (2) as the evening goes on, the drinkers' personal bubbles shrink and they end up talking in your face. I'm really not a fan of wine breath three inches from my nose.

*really*, Cindy? Not even any water? That is insane!

no water?! i HATE beer, so if that's all that's being served, i don't drink. i would've been so mad!

Nope, not even water. The event was held on the patio area of an apartment complex, and one of the guys told us that if we were desperate enough, we could wander up to the gym on a different floor to get some water up there. I didn't feel that desperate, though.

The guy in charge of the event just got out of the army after 15 years there, so that may explain some things.

You and me both, Imogen but probably for slightly different reasons.