Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

I threw up in my mouth a little when Barnes and Noble (which now has devoted like 2/3 of their floor space to freaking puzzles, if I want tchotchkes, I'll go to a hobby shop, B&N!) had a wall display of knockoffs of this ridiculous book. Not that I think erotica is inherently evil (although in a world where you, dear reader, have probably not read the complete œuvre of Wodehouse, Wharton, Waugh, or Woolf, I seriously doubt that there aren't more Important Things to be spending your valuable and limited mortality on), but that I think this is LITERALLY the most ridiculous genesis for a publishing sensation ever. I mean, I want to be a working author, it is my dream, and all I have to do is write some fan fiction based on an already ridiculous sparkly teen vampire novel?! Blghrepagujareyopahgpaweyyyttrhol.

Peeps, if that's your cup of tea, literotica will give it to you free. So not only should the questioner confess to her bishop (if in fact she thinks porn is a sin, which presumably she does, because it doesn't have to be filmed to be porn, duh), she should probably confess to her local feminist (the explicit misadventures of a 22-year-old in a psychologically abusive BDSM relationship with a billionaire instead of oh, I don't know, getting a barista job like every other young Seattleite? make my egalitarian heart hurt, I just don't see how getting tied up and whipped and crap is "liberating") to Stephen E. Meyer, as I like to pronounce her name, for not even going to the original purply prose sparkly vampire novel where at least the misogynist nonsense stopped at consensual underwear spooning (and demon spawn bursting forth from her uterus, I guess), and to booklovers everywhere for taking a valuable slot that probably could have been filled by a Raymond Chandler mystery, but nooo!

I wish there was a public service announcement on the TV that informed people that there are thousands if not millions of pornographic BDSM Twilight fan fic stories on the internet for free. Seriously, what is the world coming to that we are selling this stuff in bookstores? Or if it's erotica that people they want, there are all kinds of dirty books written by people who came up with their own characters and had editors and stuff.

"...she should probably confess to her local feminist..."

I did, indeed, laugh out loud at this line.

Re: the topic, ridiculous book/trilogy/genre is ridiculous, c'mon people, I worry about a nation that not only embraces Twilight but also makes bestselling authors of everyone who writes books based off it that are even WORSE.

bobtheenchantedone wrote:"...she should probably confess to her local feminist..."

I did, indeed, laugh out loud at this line..

I think that both successes say a lot about what women...women in general, the women who buy these books in large numbers...find sexy. It's a symptom of an illness.

For the record, BDSM is not inherently anti-feminist, abusive, or evil. I cannot speak to whether the relationships in any of these books are any of those things. Also, some people do find bondage play and masochism (and sadism play) to be very liberating. Luckily we do not have to share everyone's sexual interests to appreciate their validity.

from what I've heard, Fifty Shades actually really misrepresented BDSM, which some say is actually all about trust and not about being scared.

TheBlackSheep wrote:For the record, BDSM is not inherently anti-feminist, abusive, or evil. I cannot speak to whether the relationships in any of these books are any of those things. Also, some people do find bondage play and masochism (and sadism play) to be very liberating. Luckily we do not have to share everyone's sexual interests to appreciate their validity.

Yeah, it isn't the sex, it is the way the relationships are portrayed. Dominant male, submissive female. It isn't just role-playing, it is the way the relationship exists. Serious co-dependencies going on. (Not that I'm the expert on this (these?) book(s), just relaying the argument against them)

TheBlackSheep wrote:For the record, BDSM is not inherently anti-feminist, abusive, or evil. I cannot speak to whether the relationships in any of these books are any of those things. Also, some people do find bondage play and masochism (and sadism play) to be very liberating. Luckily we do not have to share everyone's sexual interests to appreciate their validity.

Completely agree. I don't plan on reading the books, but from what I've heard, they are not about consensual and safe BDSM. I don't know. The reason I don't plan on reading them is that I don't think people should be selling fan fiction (I actually do like fan fiction, but you don't take someone else's ideas and change them around a bit and then sell them). And I'll usually read anything just so that I can have an educated conversation about it - I read all 4 Twilight books! I don't know, maybe I will read them some day so I can comment on the content, but for now I have other things to read.

I actually did read a pretty good non-fiction book about BDSM not too long ago (partly out of curiosity and partly because as a future health care provider, I try to be sex-positive and informed about what various sexual practices actually are rather than relying on stereotypes), and while I don't think it's something I would ever be interested in, when people are doing it safely and consensually, it's all about communication and trust and knowing each other well enough and what each other likes to let the other person take control during sex. It's not about inequality or controlling someone or co-dependency or anything like that.

Also, can I just say how sick I am of hearing that various things are *porn for women*? Twilight is not *porn for women*. No one is even having sex in those books!! Porn is porn for women.

NerdGirl wrote:No one is even having sex in those books!!

Totally not necessary for porn. Just sayin'.

Marduk wrote:

NerdGirl wrote:No one is even having sex in those books!!

Totally not necessary for porn. Just sayin'.

Seriously. Haven't you seen that walking porn in their short skirts and spaghetti straps?

Craig Jessop wrote:

Marduk wrote:

NerdGirl wrote:No one is even having sex in those books!!

Totally not necessary for porn. Just sayin'.

Seriously. Haven't you seen that walking porn in their short skirts and spaghetti straps?

And bare feet!

Craig Jessop wrote:

Marduk wrote:

NerdGirl wrote:No one is even having sex in those books!!

Totally not necessary for porn. Just sayin'.

Seriously. Haven't you seen that walking porn in their short skirts and spaghetti straps?

...I hope you're kidding.

Speaking of this sort of thing, I heard a pretty good explanation of the difference between porn and erotica the other day - erotica is stuff that you and people you like find sexy, porn is stuff that people you don't like find sexy.

Craig Jessop wrote:

Marduk wrote:

NerdGirl wrote:No one is even having sex in those books!!

Totally not necessary for porn. Just sayin'.

Seriously. Haven't you seen that walking porn in their short skirts and spaghetti straps?

Don't hang out with me, then. Sometimes I'm really hot and wander around in an undershirt.

I haven't read the Twilights or 50 Shades, but I just recently read a Stephenie Meyer novel (my first) called The Host that was actually quite good...except for the semi-abusive, drawn-out, crazy dramatic love triangle. "Don't ask for her opinion, I know how she thinks, I'll answer for her..." is pretty much straight out of the book. This seems to be her way of ratcheting up the sexual tension? I'm really not sure.

I did see someone reading the 50 Shades sequel in the wild, though — an attractive mom with her husband and kids on an airplane. Sauron thinks the 50 Shades movie will bomb because putting it on a screen will cross a line of propriety for the target audience, which I think is interesting.

bobtheenchantedone wrote:
Don't hang out with me, then. Sometimes I'm really hot and wander around in an undershirt.

True and related story: the other day I went over to an apartment of girls in my ward because I was going to help one of them with a project she was working on. One of her roommates is notorious for, a) being one of the most attractive women in the ward, and, b) for being an over-the-top flirt. We'll call her Marilyn. The combination is deadly when we are in the room together.

Anyway, I knocked and heard "Come in!!!" So I entered to find... Marilyn in her underwear, apparently in the process of clothing herself. Upon my entry she stopped, came over and hugged me... WHILE IN HER SKIVVYS. It was awkward, and, I must admit, more than a little enjoyable in a Gentile-y, light the fires of my passion sort of way. She then proceeded to finish getting dressed. (WHY she shouted "come in" while undressed, and WHY she thought hugging me was a good idea, and WHY WHY WHY are very good questions, and ones that I have yet to think of a good answer to.)

Later, as I was working with her roommate, Marilyn left to go to an apartment upstairs and left instructions to send any gentleman callers (my words) upstairs to find her. About ten minutes later, a kid who can only be described as a Tool (you know, thumb rings, flat brimmed Vivint cap, a bro-tank, the works) knocked and asked for Marilyn. When told she was upstairs and that he could go find her, he smirked as if he'd accomplished something big and left. I wanted to shout after him, "Yeah bro, I'd think you were cool for getting Marilyn's attention IF SHE HADN'T HUGGED ME WHILE IN HER UNDERWEAR HALF AN HOUR AGO."

And that's my story.

Craig Jessop, your story just reminded me of the time I was tracting in my first area in State College, PA, in an apartment complex just outside of the Penn State campus. The APs had come to split with us and I had been out for maybe a month. I knocked on a door and this girl answers who, though wearing a sweater, had to be at least 44DD. My eyes saucers, I think I made a coherent intro sentence, but she politely declined. I'm sure it wouldn't have been a well-delivered discussion anyways. The AP cracked up after she closed the door. I just kept saying whoa!

Yikes. That girl knew exactly what she was doing.

I have a male friend who had a roommate at BYU who used to walk around naked all the time. We would sometimes go knock on his apartment door, and he'd yell, "Come in - oh, wait, don't come in yet, roommate is naked! Ewww! Go back in your room!" The guy also used to try to wash his clothes in the dishwasher...