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[Portia]

There was a lot that touched a nerve in the chronicle of Childless Married Student and the Crazy Mother.

First, the Gen X-ers are insane if they think that dropping out of college to purportedly "support" Mr. Izmi is anything but incredibly shortsighted and self-defeating. The gap between salaries of college graduates and everyone else is huge in a way that it simply wasn't in the '80s and '90s. Salary is not even a thing if she drops out. The return on investment of a BYU degree is so, so, so high. She should simply inform them that if they indeed think she needs to make money for her hubby's future at Wharton, then "10 hours a week at Nordstrom Rack" or "unpaid blogging internship," though perhaps more or less fulfilling, do not in fact earn any money. So strike 1: a fundamental misunderstanding of economics.

We'll let that slide, for now, because it's a common error in non-college grads who are older.

Next, her mom has a boss. Ergo, she works outside the home. Goose, meet gander. Strike 2.

Third is the rather obvious fact that if she wanted to take 18 credit hours, reproduce, and work in her field, she can. Dallin Oaks' mother would be the first woman I'd point to in this line.

I feel the same sorts of pressures from Mormons (though not my family, who are militantly pro-education and pro-career and would have a hissy fit if I gave it up to get married/be a SAHM right now), which doesn't even make sense to me, because I'm not that career- or school-oriented. I have a decent (not stellar) GPA, and a good job offer, but I'd be just as happy sipping virgin piña coladas and, I dunno, blogging for minimal income.

I've been in both situations: engaged to a high-income guy and dating guys who make significantly less than I do. In the former situation, I would have had no economic reason to work. Or do the hard work of school. Maybe ever. But being underemployed and/or undereducated makes one unhappy, a pain to live with, and (newsflash!) not very attractive to highly educated, highpowered men. Hence the rise of the DINK couples. (Another phenomenon perhaps mystifying to Gen X moms: these days, rich, smart men use their social capital to attract women of their same social class and educational level, and rarely marry down.) No one pushed me harder to do something with my life than the guy who had no need of my "support," financial or otherwise! (He got himself through school and his career on his own merits.)

And when the tables have been turned, well, I've done what I've had to to get by. If that means that I am now the one moving out of state to pursue a good job, and pushing my beaux to achieve higher, then so be it. I once went to a therapist (I think? maybe just some random lady on campus? I have issues), and she was like, "so, I'm getting the impression that you're worried your boyfriend won't be able to support you" and it was like glaghlgh! no! I'm a financial drain on my grandparents, thank you very much. I hate the idea of being "supported" by a man, like I'm just getting remittances from him, rather than building a household together.

A lot of these fears which come at the intersection of BYU culture and yuppiedom are making me hesitant about marriage and completely unable to picture a future as a practicing Mormon person.

How is the "success" of any of my boyfriends/fiancés/future husbands a reflection on me? I didn't earn their degrees! I didn't apply for their jobs! I don't control their finances!

So in a very real way, I feel like getting married (within this culture, anyway) would mean giving up a fundamental part of myself. Maybe this is seen as some mystical, noble thing, to stop being Portia and become Mrs. Bassanio. But I think we can all agree that Bassanio, though hot, is kind of an idiot, and it's best to let Portia control the boxes, the ring, and the legal defense.

Maybe it's easy to say "it's all in your head!" or "who is stopping you from being a childless wife/live-in lover of a statistician/sci-fi novelist/perpetually unemployed masters student"? To which I'd reply to never forget the "soft bigotry of low expectations."

Anyway, I'm glad there are young married and LDS women who are able to handle this so much better than I can. I'd submit that it's easier to be firm in your career goals when you actually have them, to be motivated in your graduate studies when you have excellent grades, to feel financially secure when you come from a successful background, male or female. The Board is overpopulated by handsome, clever, and rich people.

Like I said in the reunion, work/life balance ain't just a problem for Mormons. Sometimes I feel like my life is measured in dollars and cents. And sometimes it sucks to have to put a relationship on the backburner because of work. Hey, I'd like to globetrot while my husband focused on winning some bread at Goldman. Unfortunately, I inhabit a planet called "reality." (Suffering is good for writers, though.)

[Portia]

Just got a letter from Sister Zed, who always has a calming effect on me. She had a lot of helpful thoughts, and makes me realize I'm probably overreacting, as usual.

I'd still like to hear responses to the question in bold, though.

[Tally M.]

I grew up thinking I'd really just be a mother, and didn't *really* know what I wanted to do with my life--a career was always something that I might end up doing. However, my mom was actually the one encouraging me to find a career. Part of that was because my dad ended up not having a ton of work during the recession and my mom had to go back to work. She realized that I might end up having to be the one to support the family and so I needed to have "marketable" skills. I've found a compromise in my life with planning to be a professor, because I feel like that's something that will allow me to balance family and career.

I personally don't agree with the following, merely explaining a possibility of a perception. Some people may think that you chose your boyfriend's/fiancé's/future husband's success. You could have decided to be in a relationship with any number of people, and you chose the successes (or lack thereof) that came with them.

[thatonemom]

I have a lot of thoughts on this, but in the end they all boil down to the idea that you will be judged by people for the rest of your life, regardless of what you do. If you stick around in more predominantly LDS communities, you'll experience what the question-asker talked about. It's a stupid culture thing, the whole women are more decoration to the man's more important pursuits. (Don't even get me started on my adventures in sexism with trying to buy a house...)

But! If you do stick around, you'll have the chance to make snarky or passive aggressive comments to these ninnies. At least, that's what I do! You can even throw your credentials around if you want. (Lately that's the only time I pull mine out) But seriously, you will deal with stupid people, who will feel the need to inform you of their stupidness by their rude comments about your life choices, no matter where you go. No matter what you do. They could be people from your ward, or in leadership positions, or neighbors, or even family. Doesn't matter. You just have to do what works best for you and will make you happy. Because there's no pleasing everybody else.

As far as the success of your spouse being a reflection on you, it's not really. But I've felt like I've participated or helped my husband to be successful in a lot of things (work, callings) because sometimes I have to take up the slack for some of his other responsibilities so that he can do different things. He is more successful because I cover for him in other areas. And we both have the expectation that he'll do the same for me.

[Whistler]

when I complain to my husband that even if I got a job, he'd still be the main moneymaker, and that I don't do anything to help, he reminds me of the stuff I do to help--yes, boring homemaker things like cooking and cleaning, but also taking care of him when he's sick and being an emotional support and an interesting person to talk to?

[bobtheenchantedone]

I don't know that you're overrating too much, Portia; that situation rubbed me the wrong way as well. I can relate a little; people always want to know how Marduk is doing in school while even my own mother doesn't care to hear too much about how my business is doing ("Oh, that's nice that you're really excited about something called a Kickstarter, but when are you going to get married?"). Also, I frequently participate in my RS's "good news minute" by relating my latest business milestone and I get a courtesy "we'll that's great!" before everyone gets back to squeeing about engagements.

[UffishThought]

To be fair, I'd be more excited for one of my male friends if he told me he was engaged than if he told me he'd hit a near business milestone. They're both great, but in my book marriage trumps promotion or financial success on the excitement scale, no matter your gender.

[yayfulness]

My mom once made an offhanded comment, while I was talking to her about something related to my future, that my hypothetical future wife was going to work to get me through graduate school; she said it like it was a predetermined fact. It rubbed me the wrong way at the time. Now, I find it an absolutely delicious irony that, however nebulous my future seems, it's more likely at this point that I'd work to get my hypothetical future wife through grad school than vice versa. Funny how life does that to you sometimes.

[bobtheenchantedone]

Good point, Uffish - I suppose most non-entrepreneurs don't understand how important a business milestone is. ; )

[UnluckyStuntman]

I've always been more interested in a career than full-time homemaking, so when my husband and I got engaged, we spent some time figuring out ways we could have a family together while both having our needs/expectations for career fulfillment met. The original plan was for the partner who made the most money (which was likely to be me once I finished my graduate studies) would work full-time while the other would assume primary care of any future children plus the home (etc) and return to the work force upon said children entering school. Pretty much everyone who knew me understood that I was planning to work full-time after we started having kids, but that didn't stop the disparaging comments from distant relatives, neighbors, and nosy strangers. And it only got worse once I was pregnant.

BUT.

Then my husband had a stroke (surprise!) which took him out of both the workforce and prevents him from being the primary caretaker to anyone (even himself, most of the time). And suddenly all those pain-in-the-ass naysayers are totally cool with my plan to work - BECAUSE I HAVE TO.

And it makes me SO. ANGRY.

I feel like a failure to feminism because having a disabled husband is now my EZ-pass through life without criticism for working. I didn't particularly enjoy the snide comments I received from people when they learned I wasn't staying at home with my baby (which I ended up doing because I had to stay home to take care of the husband anyway), but I want to yell to the world that I was planning on being the breadwinner anyway and that I've always been capable of taking care of myself and my family thankyouverymuch.

And thus ends my rant. Thank you for reading.

[Portia]

Plus ça change ...

I've seen no progress in the zeitgeist in the past year. In the "Tea Leaves" episode of Mad Men last season, Don and his young wife Megan are meeting with an exec at Heinz and his wife. Megan is a copywriter and aspiring actor in her own right, but the other lady's like "ugh, isn't this so boring," when the guys are talking shop.

This episode was set in 1966, the year my mom was born. Sigh.