Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

I need to rant (what else is new?)...

So I got hired by goldman, right? I had a dinner with all of the new hires and current employees so we could all meet each other and connect and network and what not. Invitation said "casual dress is preferred." I show up and I'm the only female. It's a dozen men in business wear... And me. In casual dress. Now, I wore very dark wash jeans, nice boots, and a collared button down. But these guys (new hires and non) were all dressed alike- straight out of a J Crew catalogue. I stuck out like a short, blonde idiot. Like what was i missing? Invite said casual! Not business! What the heck?! How did I miss the memo that casual actually meant business-y? I felt so out of place and so embarrassed.

Dinner was awful. I was completely run over by these males trying to prove themselves, and you guys know I'm a complete witch and aggressive as hell like all the time... And these guys still outpaced me. I got a lot of "oh you actually got an offer?" And "oh, you're just a political science major?" (No, you losers, I also have an Econ major). They clearly thought that I didn't belong- that I didn't deserve to be there. They talked over me, interrupted me and made jokes about women. They thought I was just the single female diversity hire and my clothes made me look like a subpar diversity hire.

To make matters worse, they're all finance and business majors and start talking about all of this stuff that I don't know anything about- and they knew I knew nothing about it. Theyre trying to exclude me...

I hate being the only female. I don't feel like a brave trailblazer. I feel like an overwhelmed, out of my league, unprofessional idiot. I'm so out of my depth. They hired me- clearly they see something of value. But everything is going to be an uphill battle to prove I'm not there just because I'm female. I don't even know that I want to work there anymore, but I have to. I committed. I need to follow it through.

I'm just so tired of men in this industry.

I used to work at Goldman. The company overall has a HUGE problem with sexism. I wish I had awesome advice for you, but I don't, so instead I'll commiserate and say that you deserve better, and I hope your department/team is better than the company average.

Hey, if you got hired DESPITE the sexism you are probably more qualified than most of the new hires. Hang in there

I'm sorry, that sucks.

Rainbow_connection wrote:I used to work at Goldman. The company overall has a HUGE problem with sexism. I wish I had awesome advice for you, but I don't, so instead I'll commiserate and say that you deserve better, and I hope your department/team is better than the company average.

Thanks. I'm sorry to hear that as well. I had hoped that it wasn't going to be that bad, but this dinner was such a nightmare that it became abundantly clear that the environment was going to be very sexist, especially among Mormon men where the idea is very much that women stay at home and don't work. Most of the other new hires were married and all of their wives were stay at home, despite not having any children yet. They were like "Well, she's just here because no one's married her yet." or "Why are you here taking a man's spot when you belong at home?" It's so irritating! I keep comforting myself with the knowledge that this position is extended with the full expectation that you work for 2-4 years, and then move on. It's entry level and meant to just kind of be a foot-in-the-door job. So that's what I'm using it for. Two years, great name on my resume, and then I'll re-evaluate my life at that point.

Admittedly, it's kind of causing a bit of an existential crisis for me right now. I used to be so certain of my future and now I'm completely lost, dithering about. It's not very fun.

Ughhhh. That is horrible.

I get really snarky when guys act like I'm not as good because I'm a woman. I usually end up preparing responses to these comments that may or may not improve the situation. Some things I've thought of saying are:

Wow, are you just afraid that a woman could have taken this job from you?
I didn't see a gender requirement on the application, if there were, someone would have to check for your balls because you sound like a scared little boy. (this one is technically sexist, but kind of funny)
What makes you think a woman can't do this job?
Congratulations! You made the faulty assumption that my gender limits my capabilities/mental capacity!
Would you ever say that to a daughter or sister?
Good luck keeping that mindset in today's world!
Or just a simple, Wow, that's really sexist.

Again, I'm really snarky, and I may or may not say any/some of these, but it can feel good to think about.

It doesn't come up as often in medicine as I'm sure it does in business and finance, but when I hear comments that are really not okay, my go-to statement is a matter-of-fact "Steve, I'm not sure if you realize how sexist that sounds." This usually results in a prompt apology and no further inappropriate comments. I don't throw insults back because that makes people retrench themselves and get defensive and try to justify what they said. A quick apology and then moving on with the conversation is so much more pleasant and more effective than picking a fight.

If Goldman is as bad as that dinner makes it sound, I seriously recommend keeping a careful log of inappropriate statements, who said them, and where and when it happened. It could be very helpful if it ever interferes with your raises or promotions, or if you ever decide to go to HR about problems with co-workers.

Eirene wrote:"Steve, I'm not sure if you realize how sexist that sounds." This usually results in a prompt apology and no further inappropriate comments. I don't throw insults back because that makes people retrench themselves and get defensive and try to justify what they said.

This is probably, most likely, definitely better than actually saying most any of the things I wrote.

Shrinky Dink wrote:

Eirene wrote:"Steve, I'm not sure if you realize how sexist that sounds." This usually results in a prompt apology and no further inappropriate comments. I don't throw insults back because that makes people retrench themselves and get defensive and try to justify what they said.

This is probably, most likely, definitely better than actually saying most any of the things I wrote.

It's hard because returning an insult always seems so satisfying in the moment (and it's so fun to fantasize about actually saying those things!) but it's usually counterproductive in the long run.

I'm sorry to hear of your awful experience. There is no excuse for it.

Concorde wrote:I had hoped that it wasn't going to be that bad, but this dinner was such a nightmare that it became abundantly clear that the environment was going to be very sexist, especially among Mormon men where the idea is very much that women stay at home and don't work. Most of the other new hires were married and all of their wives were stay at home, despite not having any children yet. They were like "Well, she's just here because no one's married her yet." or "Why are you here taking a man's spot when you belong at home?"

When you say, "they were like," was it implied or stated aloud? If the latter, HOT DAMN.

To be fair, I had a few colleagues I REALLY liked, as well as several that were really difficult to get along with. But my boss did ask me several times when I was going to have a baby, with the implication seeming to be that I was just working until that happened. The two-year mentality is a good one to have, I think, and it really is easy to find another job after Goldman because the name is impressive on your resume.

I'm a little late to the party, but I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

My "day job" is in the male dominated field of construction management. For clarification, I do not do actual construction worker work things. I have a desk and an office. Anyways, I noticed the sexism was ten times worse in Utah. Now that I'm based out of Dallas I feel much more appreciated as one of the few woman. It also helps that there are more women with my job at the Dallas office. The guys love having us around like sisters (most of us are married & some have kids). It's easy to blame Utah, but it could be a contributing factor.

So what I'm saying is, even if you have zero plans to leave Utah in the near future, there is a chance for better treatment on the horizon! Hopefully you can take heart that you've had company in the "only female" boat. It sucks, but we can survive.

Also a lot of the male byu business/finance/acct majors I've met have been like the guys you described. IDK why. Jokes. I do know why. I know there are some nice ones out there, but byu should really make the guys all attend one of the women in business seminars. I'm not sure it would fix everything, but it would be a start.

Side note: I once said "ya there's noooo WAY I could ever do as good a job as you..." to a guy who was being dumb about my job at work. It had the intended effect.

I like to think I have a thick skin. But being humiliated in front of dozens of my new coworkers (saying the team needed "a woman's touch" as I was presenting a slide in a Super Official Meeting) made me feel like this:

Portia wrote:I like to think I have a thick skin. But being humiliated in front of dozens of my new coworkers (saying the team needed "a woman's touch" as I was presenting a slide in a Super Official Meeting) made me feel like this:

God bless Joan Holloway.

Conversation with a boy in the Cougareat:

"What are you studying?"
"O chem"
"Oh, are you going into nursing?"
"No, Computer Science"
"Oh...OH...oh!"

Yeah, because the ONLY REASON a woman at BYU could POSSIBLY have a reason to study advanced chemistry is nursing, right? I was so annoyed.

Bet he never heard of Adm. Grace Hopper.

Zedability wrote:Conversation with a boy in the Cougareat:

"What are you studying?"
"O chem"
"Oh, are you going into nursing?"
"No, Computer Science"
"Oh...OH...oh!"

Yeah, because the ONLY REASON a woman at BYU could POSSIBLY have a reason to study advanced chemistry is nursing, right? I was so annoyed.

He could have at least guessed pre-med or something. I would have never guessed computer science, but then again I did know a guy who programmed for medical devices.

Well I used to be a more sciencey science but then I switched midway through the semester