Gun violence rant

[Shrinky Dink]

I understand this isn't a personal attack at all. You definitely have reason to be more personally and emotionally driven by these issues and I have no problem with that.

I was making the point that they aren't used "LITERALLY only for killing." In fact, I feel that the use of guns for sport is similar to off label drug use. Like how certain anti anxiety medication also can be prescribed as anti nausea, how some birth controls can also affect acne, etc. Just because something was initially designed to do one thing, does not mean it is only used or allowed to do that one thing. Unfortunately, like drugs, they are misused, mistreated, and stored improperly all too often.

What happened to your stepdad was wrong. Period. Unfortunately, with the sheer quantity of guns that are already out there, I don't know what, if anything, can be done. And I'm sorry about that.

[mic0]

I really dislike the argument that something is impossible therefore don't try. Yeah, it is impossible to track every gun in the U.S. It is also impossible to track car ownership completely, but there are still efforts to do so and those efforts see some decent results.

[Shrinky Dink]

There are more guns in this country than there are motor vehicles.

Also, we can mostly track guns through serial numbers, but that usually requires the gun to be left present at the crime scene. Cars can also be more easily identified by license plates, make, and model through traffic cams and other security footage. Handguns are easily enough concealed that you'd be lucky to determine the caliber through someone's shirt.

If a gun is left at the crime scene, the police contact the manufacturer with the serial number, and other identifying info. The manufacturer contacts the seller, let's say Walmart. Walmart figures out which location the gun was taken to. The location looks through their records and finds the background check of the person who bought it. After this, the tracking breaks down. The person who bought the gun could have sold it in a private transaction, lost it, or perhaps it was stolen. If you do buy/sell a gun in a private transaction, it is highly recommended to get a bill of sale in case it is ever used in a crime. Requiring the person to provide their drivers license and concealed carry permit (if they have one) is also recommended so it will help you if the police are ever investigating a weapon that you once owned.

[Imogen]

There are more guns in this country than there are motor vehicles.

Also, we can mostly track guns through serial numbers, but that usually requires the gun to be left present at the crime scene. Cars can also be more easily identified by license plates, make, and model through traffic cams and other security footage. Handguns are easily enough concealed that you'd be lucky to determine the caliber through someone's shirt.

If a gun is left at the crime scene, the police contact the manufacturer with the serial number, and other identifying info. The manufacturer contacts the seller, let's say Walmart. Walmart figures out which location the gun was taken to. The location looks through their records and finds the background check of the person who bought it. After this, the tracking breaks down. The person who bought the gun could have sold it in a private transaction, lost it, or perhaps it was stolen. If you do buy/sell a gun in a private transaction, it is highly recommended to get a bill of sale in case it is ever used in a crime. Requiring the person to provide their drivers license and concealed carry permit (if they have one) is also recommended so it will help you if the police are ever investigating a weapon that you once owned.

This one thing that makes me nuts about our gun control laws. NO ONE should be able to buy a firearm without a background check. That loophole alone means weapons can end up in the wrong hands, and that just makes me ill.

[Zedability]

Fun fact, we have a family friend with a cabin in Montana and they just go down, buy guns off the local classifieds, and keep them at their cabin to shoot. Totally harmless, but I hate to think of the implications for how easy it must be for drug runners from Canada or less savory locals there to buy guns as well.

[Shrinky Dink]

I agree, background checks should be required more often than they are. The man who taught the concealed carry class I took, made sure to never sell a gun to someone without a concealed carry permit. If they have their permit, a quick call to the respective agency should ensure that nothing has occurred to cause the permit to be revoked.

[Portia]

This was the article I was referencing:

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8833529/me ... -shootings

[Digit]

There are more guns in this country than there are motor vehicles.

What if they stopped, or severely capped, the making of bullets?

[Shrinky Dink]

There are more guns in this country than there are motor vehicles.

What if they stopped, or severely capped, the making of bullets?

Stockpiling happens. I'm 100% serious too. Ask anyone about .22 LR ammunition. Over the last year or so, it has been extremely hard to come by. Whenever stores do get it in, it is usually sold out within minutes. It is also one of the cheaper ammunition, averaging about 10-12 cents a bullet. During the shortage, I saw some people selling blocks of it (about 100 rounds) for $20 to $60, instead of the $10 it is worth. Just google "22LR ammunition shortage" and you'll see plenty of thoughts on it. Luckily, I have started to see more 22LR ammunition around lately, so the shortage might be coming to an end.

Edit: Also, some ammunition can be hand loaded. .22LR ammunition can't because it's rim-fire, but most larger caliber ammo and shotgun shells can be reloaded since it's center fire. Center fire ammunition is able to be reloaded relatively easily with some basic equipment including a precise scale, a press, some gun powder, a bullet, primer, and the casing (the casing can be reused, but you need new powder and a new bullet). It's mostly reserved for hobbyists at the moment because it is a little more expensive to hand load ammo than it is to purchase it from the store and it can be time consuming to load any large quantity of ammo. Hand loading can be nice if you're loading ammo for someone who is smaller and can't have as much kick, especially if you're loading shotgun shells.

Edit #2: It's generally cheaper to hand load rifle ammunition.


(images stolen from google images)

[Shrinky Dink]

This was the article I was referencing:

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8833529/me ... -shootings

From the article:

But there are a lot of other factors that aren't linked to mental illness that are equally predictive if not more predictive: access to firearms, substance use or abuse, and past history of violence or arrests. These are all far more predictive than a diagnosis of mental illness — and they're more preventive in the long run.

I would be fine if substance use or abuse, and past history of violence or arrests also were things that stopped a background check from coming back clean, similar to some of the requirements that make a Utah Concealed Carry Permit so well respected.

[Portia]

Malcolm Gladwell's take on group psychology and that we've now reached an, ahem, tipping point where the young men are acting out a sort of social script or meme and aren't, a priori, raging psychopaths. I found it very informative.

[Shrinky Dink]

I find it interesting that the ages of the people instigating these shootings (and almost shootings in the first paragraph of the second section) are listed as 17, 14, 16, 16, 14, 13, 11, 14, and 15. The other, not listed, ages of the remaining few shooters in the same paragraph were 18, 17, 23, 20, and 26.

Sure, some guns were probably obtained illegally, but many incidents could have been stopped with a simple gun safe that the kids didn't have the combo.

Other than that, I do find the article very informative as well, especially comparing current school shootings to mob mentality. I think it's a good read for people on both sides of the issue.