LDS Handbook changes - SSM, Apostasy, and children
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Zedability
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Re: LDS Handbook changes - SSM, Apostasy, and children
Yeah, I definitely don't mean to minimize the hurt caused by the policy itself. The amount of hurt from the policy vs the members probably varies according to each person's situation. Regardless, any amount the members are heaping on top of the policy is too much, in my opinion. I felt a lot of today feeling really discouraged with everyone.
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Cognoscente
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Re: LDS Handbook changes - SSM, Apostasy, and children
The First Presidency put out a response today: https://www.lds.org/pages/church-handbo ... s?lang=eng
It appears to help clarify a few situations related to the handbook changes, but not all of them.
It appears to help clarify a few situations related to the handbook changes, but not all of them.
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Precludes you from seeing the most brilliant starry nights
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TheBlackSheep
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Re: LDS Handbook changes - SSM, Apostasy, and children
Yeah. I still don't understand what "primary residence" means. I know lots of people who were formerly in mixed orientation marriages who now share both physical and legal custody 50-50.
This also doesn't help me feel the slightest bit better about anything. I'm not saying that that was the First Presidency's motivation or even that it should have been, just that I am girding my loins for when active members tell me that it should make me feel better or that it made them feel better so what's wrong with me.
This also doesn't help me feel the slightest bit better about anything. I'm not saying that that was the First Presidency's motivation or even that it should have been, just that I am girding my loins for when active members tell me that it should make me feel better or that it made them feel better so what's wrong with me.
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Cognoscente
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Re: LDS Handbook changes - SSM, Apostasy, and children
I like this reaction: http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org ... um=twitter
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Zedability
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Re: LDS Handbook changes - SSM, Apostasy, and children
New pet peeve: "Well everyone who's upset by this policy already hated the Church anyways and just wanted it to look bad which is why people are freaking out."
No. Just...no. Stop. Incorrect on so many levels.
No. Just...no. Stop. Incorrect on so many levels.
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Cognoscente
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Re: LDS Handbook changes - SSM, Apostasy, and children
Definitely don't read the comments on Deseret News, then.Zedability wrote:New pet peeve: "Well everyone who's upset by this policy already hated the Church anyways and just wanted it to look bad which is why people are freaking out."
No. Just...no. Stop. Incorrect on so many levels.
Early to bed and early to rise
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Precludes you from seeing the most brilliant starry nights
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Zedability
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Re: LDS Handbook changes - SSM, Apostasy, and children
Overheard it in the HFAC. THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE MY LIBERAL HAVEN. Haha.
Re: LDS Handbook changes - SSM, Apostasy, and children
The nice thing about humanism is that it allows one to prioritize the well-being of actual people (actual gay parents, actual lesbians who are hurt by this asinine policy, actual children of polygamists navigating a hostile world) rather than take the Handbook as "true" a priori.
The nice thing about secular humanism is that one need not appeal to Shiva, Zeus, Allah, Heavenly Mother, etc., to justify one's views of what constitutes said well-being. Rather, morality can arise through critical reasoning, MILLENNIA of studies and writing in philosophy, neurobiology, and fiction, and the part in any person of sound conscience and mind that says, "this is wrong."
The nice thing about secular humanism is that one need not appeal to Shiva, Zeus, Allah, Heavenly Mother, etc., to justify one's views of what constitutes said well-being. Rather, morality can arise through critical reasoning, MILLENNIA of studies and writing in philosophy, neurobiology, and fiction, and the part in any person of sound conscience and mind that says, "this is wrong."
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Zedability
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Re: LDS Handbook changes - SSM, Apostasy, and children
Kinda just want to pound this into everyone's heads.
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TheBlackSheep
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Re: LDS Handbook changes - SSM, Apostasy, and children
A well-known Mormon feminist is now saying on Facebook that she knows of six LGB Mormon teenagers who have killed themselves since the change in policy. I'm given to believe her. The thought infuriates and disturbs me.
The ways that individual members of the church have responded have definitely not helped. I remember being fresh out of the church, or even before then, during Prop 8, begging people to just be kind and acknowledge others' pain. It is disheartening to say the least to see that that plea is still needed. I've had enough with asking. Some of the comments and attitudes I have seen since the change in policy are unconscionable. I have appreciated all of the kind words and actions from active members, on the other hand.
That being said, the policy itself is also to blame here. The longstanding attitudes, policies, etc. of the LDS Church itself are to blame. We can't blame this all on the culture or on individual members. It's a neat excuse because people really are imperfect wherever you go. It's easier to assign blame to them rather than an organization that one values as an ideal. But this change in policy, it takes what was just another garden variety abominable sexual sin and elevates it to the only simple sin singled out as apostasy. It takes one group of kids -- gay people's kids -- and separates them out from all other sinners' children. While children from nonmember or part-member families, children whose parents are alcoholics or gross sinners, children whose parents are anything in the whole world, while they would face the same situations as the children of gay couples, the church now says, You are different. You are somehow more extreme or more scary or more SOMETHING and so you have to be excluded. And the reason why is your gay parents. It's their fault.
LGBTQ people, particularly scared, lonely, LGBTQ youth, hear the message loud and clear. And then we are apologeticized and rationalized and told that actually this is all for our benefit. Our perceptions are wrong. We are crazy or at best over sensitive as well as extra-bad sinners.
This isn't just the crackpot, empathy-lacking members doing this. Every time something like this happens with the church, LGBTQ Mormons, especially kids, kill themselves. We don't hear about it nearly as often as it happens because suicide is still so taboo in Mormon culture, and especially suicide for reasons related to LGBTQ issues. Why do we keep letting children kill themselves?
When I was 20, I attempted suicide. I was saved by my own incompetence as the medications I took had expired without my realizing it and were therefore less potent. By the time I decided to go to a hospital it was too late for me to be treated. All they could do was monitor my condition. I faced dying a slow, agonizing death over a week or two as my liver shut down and toxins built up in my blood. Luckily, since the medication was expired and my body was so proactive about removing the toxins in other ways (barf city), I am okay. I had a lot of reasons for doing what I did, but my sexuality and my feeling like there was no hope for me was one of them. I went to a bleeping art school. I had gay friends and I knew supportive adults. I still felt like there was no way out. Why can't we understand that we give these kids no way out? Why do we keep letting them die?
The ways that individual members of the church have responded have definitely not helped. I remember being fresh out of the church, or even before then, during Prop 8, begging people to just be kind and acknowledge others' pain. It is disheartening to say the least to see that that plea is still needed. I've had enough with asking. Some of the comments and attitudes I have seen since the change in policy are unconscionable. I have appreciated all of the kind words and actions from active members, on the other hand.
That being said, the policy itself is also to blame here. The longstanding attitudes, policies, etc. of the LDS Church itself are to blame. We can't blame this all on the culture or on individual members. It's a neat excuse because people really are imperfect wherever you go. It's easier to assign blame to them rather than an organization that one values as an ideal. But this change in policy, it takes what was just another garden variety abominable sexual sin and elevates it to the only simple sin singled out as apostasy. It takes one group of kids -- gay people's kids -- and separates them out from all other sinners' children. While children from nonmember or part-member families, children whose parents are alcoholics or gross sinners, children whose parents are anything in the whole world, while they would face the same situations as the children of gay couples, the church now says, You are different. You are somehow more extreme or more scary or more SOMETHING and so you have to be excluded. And the reason why is your gay parents. It's their fault.
LGBTQ people, particularly scared, lonely, LGBTQ youth, hear the message loud and clear. And then we are apologeticized and rationalized and told that actually this is all for our benefit. Our perceptions are wrong. We are crazy or at best over sensitive as well as extra-bad sinners.
This isn't just the crackpot, empathy-lacking members doing this. Every time something like this happens with the church, LGBTQ Mormons, especially kids, kill themselves. We don't hear about it nearly as often as it happens because suicide is still so taboo in Mormon culture, and especially suicide for reasons related to LGBTQ issues. Why do we keep letting children kill themselves?
When I was 20, I attempted suicide. I was saved by my own incompetence as the medications I took had expired without my realizing it and were therefore less potent. By the time I decided to go to a hospital it was too late for me to be treated. All they could do was monitor my condition. I faced dying a slow, agonizing death over a week or two as my liver shut down and toxins built up in my blood. Luckily, since the medication was expired and my body was so proactive about removing the toxins in other ways (barf city), I am okay. I had a lot of reasons for doing what I did, but my sexuality and my feeling like there was no hope for me was one of them. I went to a bleeping art school. I had gay friends and I knew supportive adults. I still felt like there was no way out. Why can't we understand that we give these kids no way out? Why do we keep letting them die?