Emiliana wrote:From the original question - the anonymous writer said that the difficulties are pretty much irreconcilable. And....to be honest, I kind of agree.
Yeeeeah, me too. Something's gotta give for anything to substantively change, and an expectation that this will happen is just not usually practical in these situations.
Emiliana wrote:The belief that being isolated from one's family is in some sense good, because it maybe could bring about repentance, is hurtful. It just is.
Omg right? This was my main issue with the original answers, other than the writers discussing Tom Christofferson, which makes me uncomfortable.
Emiliana wrote:The Entomophagist wrote:to infer that merely from the fact that suicide has become more frequent in the general population is to assume that straight people aren't allowed to have depression or feel suicidal.
What the non sequitur???? I am a straight person who has dealt with depression and suicidality. That does not change the fact that other people also have depression and suicidality, and that those issues can be made much worse by familial rejection. I have enough empathy to recognize that if I were LGBT, my issues might be compounded by other people's hurtful reactions to my LGBT identity. That in no way invalidates the feelings of depression I have experienced as a straight person.
Thanks for saying that. I worried that I hadn't been clear enough on that somehow? But it's also a weird statement to make to me, as you could argue that I started the current trend of writers being open about their mental health struggles and really championed that, even talking about my own suicide attempt when that was not done. For all anybody knew back then, I was straight. I don't think I've ever suggested otherwise? And that's obviously not the point I was trying to make?
Emiliana wrote:I don't have facts that either prove or disprove your hypothesis that rejection of LGBT youth is largely responsible for the increased suicide rate. My gut agrees with you. But whether you're right or wrong in no way invalidates anyone else's experience of depression. Good grief.
I have some stats. I'm thinking of sending in a follow-up question to inquire as to what statistics we need to have to back up that statement. But the major point is, I agree. Nothing about that suggests that straight/cis people are not allowed to have depression or suicidal ideation. Frustrating.
Emiliana wrote:The Black Sheep wrote: If there had been any way for me to stay an active LDS person, I would have. I tried. I could not, however."
Yes. This. I am 90% sure I understand this. My experience has not been the same as yours (mine didn't involve the same level of trauma), but I understand this. No offense to Anne, Certainly, but she clearly does not understand what you mean because her response.....doesn't match what I'm pretty sure you meant.
Yes, I'm sure you do. I gave believing in the Mormon gospel (because, to be clear, I don't believe in the Mormon gospel anymore) everything I had for a good long while. Her response was fairly invalidating but also fairly typical of active Mormons, because they do believe that theirs is the one true way and if it doesn't work for everyone it kind of torpedoes the whole thing.
Emiliana wrote:Also, although non-doctrinal cultural aspects of religion can be damaging, they're not the only thing that's damaging and could cause someone to leave a religious community. Sometimes the actual core doctrines are hurtful!
YES.
Emiliana wrote:Sheebs wrote:I think it is justifiable to leave room for the possibility that many people who leave the church are genuinely doing the best that they can.
That's.....kind of condescending?
I appreciated Sheebs' response, actually, because even a moderate response like that one is pretty darn liberal in Mormon doctrine. (So Sheebs, if you read this, thank you.) And really, I couldn't really give active Mormons any more than that if I were being 100% truthful (though I wouldn't phrase it that way, even though I'm about to for parallelism's sake). Yes, they belong to a (per my estimation) harmful institution and are therefore helping it survive, but I do believe that, generally, they are doing the best that they can with their experiences and their feelings with what they have.
Emiliana wrote:TL;DR: People's beliefs inform their actions. I am sorry that people's beliefs and subsequent actions have been hurtful to you, TBS.
Thanks Emiliana. And thanks for talking to me about this.
P.S. Would you be interested in a postmormon podcast that involves a lot of swearing? I have ex-evangelical-type friends who listen to it for the similarities to their own situations. PM me if yes.
(Edited to change a word for clarity.)