Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:23 pm
Actually I think Mexico has legalized gay marriages. But I am not sure.
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Back to this point, when you say that multiple marriage is better because it can make sure "the gene pool stays nice and deep," how do homosexual marriages help the gene pool deepen? The people involved in them are not going to reproduce, so they are not going to help deepen the gene pool. This is what I interpreted this statement as. Can you tell me how this relates to/supports gay marriage?Imogen wrote:fred is correct. when i say that marriage is cultural, i mean all marriage. anthropologically speaking, society deemed it "better" for two people to remain monogamous, and society created marriage. biologically, it actually makes more sense for people to have multiple partners so the gene pool stays nice and deep, but society has made most sexual relationships outside of marriage wrong. and once the state got involved in marriage and family planning, there were even more issues attached.
i didn't mean marriage here. i meant sexual partners. more chance of the seed getting sown if it's planted many places or fertilized many times.Giovanni Schwartz wrote:Back to this point, when you say that multiple marriage is better because it can make sure "the gene pool stays nice and deep," how do homosexual marriages help the gene pool deepen? The people involved in them are not going to reproduce, so they are not going to help deepen the gene pool. This is what I interpreted this statement as. Can you tell me how this relates to/supports gay marriage?Imogen wrote:fred is correct. when i say that marriage is cultural, i mean all marriage. anthropologically speaking, society deemed it "better" for two people to remain monogamous, and society created marriage. biologically, it actually makes more sense for people to have multiple partners so the gene pool stays nice and deep, but society has made most sexual relationships outside of marriage wrong. and once the state got involved in marriage and family planning, there were even more issues attached.
It means less population growth with more gays around.Giovanni Schwartz wrote:So homosexuality will keep the population down, but I don't understand what the seeds being sown have to do with the issue at hand.
human beings have engaged in homosexual activity for centuries. it's not even until fairly recently that the classifications of "heterosexual" and "homosexual" became so fraught with meaning. men and women would get married and have families and have homosexual relationships with others, but that didn't mean they were "gay" because that didn't even exist. it was just a part of life.Nanti-SARRMM wrote:It means less population growth with more gays around.Giovanni Schwartz wrote:So homosexuality will keep the population down, but I don't understand what the seeds being sown have to do with the issue at hand.
It sounds like a plot of a bad movie, where scientists see that animals adapt to what happens to survive but don't realize that nature is doing the same thing to them, increase in homosexuality to decrease the population growth
to clarify:Giovanni Schwartz wrote:So homosexuality will keep the population down, but I don't understand what the seeds being sown have to do with the issue at hand.
I wasn't saying that homosexuality is something that has cropped up in the last century, I believe it has occurred in other societies before. What I am saying is that the attention to it, or increased knowledge is more public.Imogen wrote:human beings have engaged in homosexual activity for centuries. it's not even until fairly recently that the classifications of "heterosexual" and "homosexual" became so fraught with meaning. men and women would get married and have families and have homosexual relationships with others, but that didn't mean they were "gay" because that didn't even exist. it was just a part of life.Nanti-SARRMM wrote:It means less population growth with more gays around.Giovanni Schwartz wrote:So homosexuality will keep the population down, but I don't understand what the seeds being sown have to do with the issue at hand.
It sounds like a plot of a bad movie, where scientists see that animals adapt to what happens to survive but don't realize that nature is doing the same thing to them, increase in homosexuality to decrease the population growth
Maybe, but I think it goes on to a certain level of violation of beliefs and break from social norm. You could say it is the perception thing. Due to religion, most people have grown up believing that it is inappropriate behavior to engage in homosexual behavior. It is living within the norms of society, of what they have always known to be true. If there were no God, then this wouldn't be as big of an issue, but God does exists, or for the sake of the argument, many perceive that he exists and believe based on that.Imogen wrote:indeed nanti. can't disagree with you there.
i think humans naturally want to place others in different categories and discriminate because of that. i think it's an innate human instinct.
I used to have a lot of discussions with some libertarian, atheist friends of mine. You remind me a bit of them.Imogen wrote:i still maintain that it is wrong to use one's personal beliefs to judge others actions if those actions do not concern or harm said person. i'm a staunch believer in John Stuart Mill's "harm principle." and if the guy down the street from me is gay, it's none of my business and does me no harm.
i'm sort of playing to my audience with this example, but whenever someone around me disparages mormonism, i defend it for the same reasons. people are free to do and blieve whatever they want, no matter how strange it may seem to some. and as long as they're not causing me any sort of trouble, than it's not my place to say they're wrong. same goes for homosexuals, transgendered people, etc.
congnoscente told me once he thinks i'm libertarian. maybe i am and don't know it!Fredjikrang wrote:I used to have a lot of discussions with some libertarian, atheist friends of mine. You remind me a bit of them.Imogen wrote:i still maintain that it is wrong to use one's personal beliefs to judge others actions if those actions do not concern or harm said person. i'm a staunch believer in John Stuart Mill's "harm principle." and if the guy down the street from me is gay, it's none of my business and does me no harm.
i'm sort of playing to my audience with this example, but whenever someone around me disparages mormonism, i defend it for the same reasons. people are free to do and blieve whatever they want, no matter how strange it may seem to some. and as long as they're not causing me any sort of trouble, than it's not my place to say they're wrong. same goes for homosexuals, transgendered people, etc.
The problem with basing decision on whether or not it hurts me is that it doesn't protect everyone. The alleged sexual abuse taking place on the FLDS ranch in Texas probably doesn't hurt you or I directly, but I don't think that makes it okay. At some point, our culture has decided that if it hurts anyone in our culture, it is wrong. (Gross overgeneralization, I know, but you get what I'm trying to say.) So the question then becomes: Does gay marriage harm anyone in our community? I think my biggest concern is that if marriage between two people of the same gender is codified under law, then same-gender couples will probably be allowed to adopt children. These children don't choose to be born in that situation any more than children born on the YFZ ranch chose that lifestyle, and yet both are brought into it.Imogen wrote:i still maintain that it is wrong to use one's personal beliefs to judge others actions if those actions do not concern or harm said person. i'm a staunch believer in John Stuart Mill's "harm principle." and if the guy down the street from me is gay, it's none of my business and does me no harm.
i'm sort of playing to my audience with this example, but whenever someone around me disparages mormonism, i defend it for the same reasons. people are free to do and blieve whatever they want, no matter how strange it may seem to some. and as long as they're not causing me any sort of trouble, than it's not my place to say they're wrong. same goes for homosexuals, transgendered people, etc.