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duh na na na na na na na BATMAN! (spoliers)
Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:04 am
by Imogen
Ok, I had a debate about this before and now I'm confused:
I thought batman went after Rachel and the police went after Harvey. I even remember Gordon saying "We're going to get Dent." Am I totally making that up in my head because it makes the movie a lot cooler that Batman got the wrong person because he gave into his own selfish desires?
Also, Lucius is staying with the company because Batman rewarded his faith by wiring the sonar to blow up when Lucius' name was entered. I know this is right because of Gordon's voiceover and the fact that it was blowing up behind Lucius. I just re-read the answer, and HM makes no mention of the blowing up part. Because Lucius says he'll stay if the machine isn't there anymore, and it blows up.
Re: duh na na na na na na na BATMAN! (spoliers)
Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:36 am
by Nanti-SARRMM
Imogen wrote:Ok, I had a debate about this before and now I'm confused:
I thought batman went after Rachel and the police went after Harvey. I even remember Gordon saying "We're going to get Dent." Am I totally making that up in my head because it makes the movie a lot cooler that Batman got the wrong person because he gave into his own selfish desires?
Yeah, I thought that too, and that the Joker had given the wrong locations because he knew that Batman would go for Rachel, so he made it so he would go for Dent instead. And since the Joker wanted to pull Dent down, he knew the only way to do it would be if Dent was rescued.
Of course if Batman and the police coordinated efforts to enter and retrieve Rachel and Dent at the same time, they both might have lived. but although that would have been a smarter move, I know it wouldn't have made the movie as good, and would have ruined the themes it was playing at.
Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:11 am
by TheAnswerIs42
I agree on both, Imogen. Batman went after Rachel, and the Joker switched them. He blew up the sonic cell phone thingy at the end so Lucius would stay. I only saw it once, but that is what I remember.
Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:28 am
by Humble Master
I may be wrong on the Rachel/Dent thing. Sorry, I've only seen it once.
But I had the distinct impression that Fox blew up the computers, but wouldn't work for Wayne/Batman anymore because he had built it in the first place. Again, I may be wrong, but that's how I saw it.
Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:20 am
by Imogen
Humble Master wrote:I may be wrong on the Rachel/Dent thing. Sorry, I've only seen it once.
But I had the distinct impression that Fox blew up the computers, but wouldn't work for Wayne/Batman anymore because he had built it in the first place. Again, I may be wrong, but that's how I saw it.
no he said he wouldn't work there as long as it existed. but bruce had already wired it to blow before that conversation because he knew it was bad. and lucius was totally smiling when he walked away, which i took to mean he knew bruce was a step ahead of him and he'd be at work in the morning.
Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:43 pm
by Humble Master
I obviously need to go see it again, but I've talked about this movie with a lot of people, and nobody thought Fox was still going to be around. I'm pretty sure Fox said something about helping Batman this one last time, but then he was done, he was out.
Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:11 pm
by Cognoscente
Yeah, but he implied that that decision was conditional on the machine being there. I came to the same conclusion as Imogen.
Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:06 pm
by Humble Master
In my defense, both of the points of the film I was wrong about are apparently unclear enough that they are discussed in the FAQs about The Dark Knight on imdb.com:
What really happens when Batman is given the choice to save one person or the other?
At a pivotal point in the film, Batman is given two addresses and told that he can only save one of the people, those two people being either Harvey Dent or Rachel. Batman leaves the station and says he is going for Rachel. He leaves the police to rescue Harvey.
The Joker, knowing the close relationship Batman has with Rachel after witnessing him rescue Rachel at the fundraiser, lies and switches the addresses. The Joker knows that Batman will choose Rachel. Thus while Batman intended to save Rachel, he "saves" Harvey instead. The Joker needs Harvey alive for his 'ace in the hole'.
Meanwhile, the police, having heard the Joker's confession, race to save the other party. However, for some reason (perhaps the Bat-Pod is faster than a squadcar, or one address is farther than the other), they don't arrive in time, and Rachel dies in the explosion.
So...yeah, I was out and out wrong on that one. No bones about it.
Does Lucius resign after the cell phone ordeal?
He most likely does not. When Lucius types his name into the computer and the machine destroys itself, he nods with satisfaction and smiles to himself. At the same time, Bruce Wayne says this in a voice-over: "...people deserve to have their faith rewarded." So while the movie does not explicitly say one way or the other whether Fox resigns, it is implied that he does not. Taken together with Fox's assertion that 'as long as the machine is at Wayne Enterprises, he won't be,' it is an almost sure bet that Fox remains.
They admit this one is ambiguous, and I still think Fox is done, because it makes more thematic sense considering they seem to want Batman alone and isolated in the third film.