Big long Harry Potter post discussing inconsequential things

Any miscellaneous posts can live here.

Is this too nitpicky?

Heck no! I love this kind of stuff.
4
29%
Yes. Yes it is. Just enjoy the story.
3
21%
Too long, didn't read it
7
50%
 
Total votes: 14

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Big long Harry Potter post discussing inconsequential things

Post by ahem. »

I’m a little confused about something. I was going to ask the Board, but I figured I could just ask the Board board and get some answers faster. I have been reading Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, and now I’m a bit mixed up. I think part of it is because I don’t know anything about trains, and the Hogwarts Express is a train. I guess I’m either really mistaken about the events of this chapter, or there was a poor bit of editing here. So here are two questions that have me a bit confused:
  • What is the relationship between the carriages, the compartments, and the corridor?
-I think the carriages are the separate cars on the train, and each carriage has a set number of compartments that open up into a long corridor that runs along the length of the train (all the carriages).
  • Where is the luggage kept? Are there specific luggage carriages or compartments, or does everyone keep their luggage with them?
-I’m pretty sure everyone keeps their trunks etc. with them, stored up on luggage racks provided in each compartment.

Okay, so that doesn’t seem too confusing, does it? Now let me walk you through the events of a couple of pages in chapter 5. Please turn with me to page 72. The Weaselys, Harry, and Hermione have just reached Platform 9 ¾.

“Harry and Ron led the way to the end of the train, past packed compartments to a carriage that looked quite empty. They loaded the trunks onto it, stowed Hedwig and Crookshanks in the luggage rack, then went outside to say good-bye to Mr. And Mrs. Weasley. (72)”

Okay, so here, they are in the very last carriage of the train, and they load their luggage and pets into a luggage rack (presumably inside of one of the compartments). Then they go back to the platform to say goodbye to the Weasleys. At this point, Mrs. Weasley hands out sandwiches, and Mr. Weasly pulls Harry aside to warn him about Sirius Black. The other students get back onto the train. As Harry and Mr. Weasley are speaking, the train starts to pull away:

“Steam was billowing from the train; it had started to move. Harry ran to the compartment door and Ron threw it open and stood back to let him on. They leaned out of the window and waved at Mr. And Mrs. Weasley until the train turned a corner and blocked him from view. (73)”

Ron, Hermione, and Ginny were presumably in the compartment where they had left their luggage. Harry joins them through an outside “compartment door.” Therefore, there must be a door to both the outside of the train and to an inner corridor between the compartments. They are now all in the compartment, waving out the window to the Weasleys. Right? Erm… apparently not.

Ron dismisses Ginny so Harry can tell Ron and Hermione about the situation with Sirius. Instead of sitting down in the compartment and having a conversation, “Harry, Ron, and Hermione set off down the corridor, looking for an empty compartment, but all were full except for the one at the very end of the train. This had only one occupant, a man sitting fast asleep next to the window. (74)”

But… didn’t Harry enter the train through a compartment door? Wouldn’t he already be inside of a compartment? Also, about the line earlier about them finding a “carriage that looked quite empty.” At first I thought this was foreshadowing about Lupin’s presence in a compartment, but apparently it was just saying they had put their luggage in an empty carriage which, in the space of about five minutes, had suddenly become packed full of students.

You might argue that they had stored their luggage in a separate compartment of the carriage, and Harry had entered through the luggage compartment, forcing them to find a different compartment to sit in. In fact, there is even a bit of evidence to suggest that the luggage was stored separately:

“The train came to a stop with a jolt, and distant thuds and bangs told them that luggage had fallen out of the racks. (81)”

The fact that there were distant thuds seems to support the idea that the luggage was somewhere else. If it was in fact in their compartment, the thuds wouldn’t exactly be distant, now would they? But, unfortunately, this theory is completely squashed when Harry’s sneakoscope goes off:

“A faint, tinny sort of whistle was coming from somewhere. They looked all around the compartment. ‘It’s coming from your trunk, Harry,’ said Ron, standing up and reaching into the luggage rack. (76)”

So Harry’s trunk is in the sitting compartment, as well as at least one of the pets:

“[Hermione] was fumbling with the straps of Crookshanks’s basket as she spoke. (78)”

Okay, well if they put the luggage and pets into that compartment, why on earth did they have to rediscover that particular compartment when they went looking for one? Also, Lupin would have had to have been in the compartment went they put the luggage away, or else he probably couldn’t have snuck into the compartment and lapsed into such a sound sleep during the short time the students were out bidding the Weasleys farewell (thus leading me to believe that the note earlier about the carriage looking quite empty was indeed foreshadowing about Lupin).


Okay, I tried to create an image of my perception of the train, but I’m not sure it will actually show up. I labeled the platform/outside of the train “A,” The last carriage “B,” the last compartment in that carriage “C,” and the corridor “D.”


Image


Just another quote to back up my perception of the relationship between B, C, and D:

“Harry, who was nearest the door, got up to look into the corridor [D]. All along the carriage , heads were sticking curiously out of their compartments [C]. (81)”


Okay, the image won't show up on my computer, so just go here to see the train thing I made.
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Post by A Mom, but not yours »

So, I did a few quick google searches. From an article on a czar whose name now escapes me, it appears that your vocabulary seems to be correct. From a look at a diagram of a sleeper cars on Amtrak, it appears that there are, on their trains, luggage racks both inside and outside the compartments - visualize a mix between the shuttle to the rental cars at the airport and the airplane itself. Thus, there would be luggage elsewhere on the train accounting for the distant thuds. Perhaps theirs didn't fall by some fluke or whatever.

I would imagine that he entered by a carriage door, not a compartment door, unless it's a train that doesn't fit any of my preconceived notions or match any that I've ridden on. (Yes, I've ridden on passenger trains.) Got to love those editing errors.

As to why they had to search for a compartment all over again, they found an empty-looking carriage and left their luggage there, but not in a compartment. After their goodbyes, while more people had gotten on the train, they found a nearly empty compartment and settled in. At least that was my reading. Of course, you would think this would make it difficult to stand up and reach his trunk, but....

<sigh>
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Post by Twister of Fate »

I have an inconsequential HP question, if you don't mind. How/when does Harry get the Maurader's map back after Barty Crouch/Professor Moody takes it?
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Post by ahem. »

From JK Rowling's World Book Day Chat, March 4, 2004:
How did Harry get the Marauder's Map back, when Crouch Jr. had it last?
JK Rowling replies -> Loads of people have asked me this, I knew I should have shown Harry nipping into Moody's empty office and getting it back, but I assumed you'd all know that's what he did. Sorry!
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Post by Twister of Fate »

Heh. Figures. Hahaha thanks!
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Post by ahem. »

Always happy to help!
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Anyone finished Deathly Hallows yet?

Post by A Mom, but not yours »

I was left with one question and it may have just been something I missed....
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Post by UffishThought »

Just finished. Though I can't promise I read carefully--I mostly just wanted to see how it all turned out.
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Post by Humble Master »

Also all done.
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Post by bismark »

finished days and days ago (ie i am the coolest one here)
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Post by A Mom, but not yours »

Spoiler alert: Don't read this if you aren't done yet.







I was under the impression that by the time they had escaped from Gringott's, the goblin had the sword. In the closing chapter after Luna furnishes a diversion and Harry's looking for Ron and Hermione, he walks by Neville sitting at a table with Gryffindor's sword. How did he get it?
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Post by bismark »

the sword comes out of the sorting hat when and neville uses it to chop off the head of nagini. if i remember correctly, the sword will come to a gryffindor who is in need of a weapon for a great act of courage (or something along those lines).
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Post by A Mom, but not yours »

Ah. Thank you. Sort of like how Harry got it the first time. I was sure I'd just missed something but couldn't reread since someone else already has my copy of the book.....
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Post by bismark »

major plot hole in #7 (with spoilers)!!!!!!!!!!

the elder wand obviously plays a major role in the story, along with the whole method of becoming the master of it. so they talk about how people get the wand:

gregorovich: unknown.
grindelwald: steals from gregorovich.
dumbledore: defeats grindelwald, gets wand.
draco: disarms dumbledore, become rightful master
harry: disarms draco, becomes rightful master

does no one else see the issue here? first, from what it looks like, grindelwald steals the wand from gregorovich in a sneaky fashion. can we consider this a "defeat" of gregorovich?

if no:

grindelwald never became the master, which is why dumbledore was able to defeat him, and why he said he never "had" the wand. thus gregorovich was still the master, and gregorovich was killed by voldemort, thus making voldemort the master of the wand.

if yes:

"defeating" the wielder appears to be as simple as taking the wand away, not necessarily defeating someone in a duel. thus, wouldn't the mere fact that voldemort grabbed the wand make him the rightful master?

either way, voldemort is the master of the elder wand, the ending makes no sense, and we ought to riot in the streets.
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Post by bismark »

nevermind.. been proven wrong:

"then the intruder shot a stunning spell from his wand and jumped neatly backward out of teh window with a crow of laughter"
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Post by Wisteria »

I dunno . . . I still think that the bit about Harry defeating Draco and thus becoming the true master of the wand is a bit weak. It's not like the Elder Wand was directly involved in the struggle and Draco didn't die . . . it's not like the book is ruined for me, but I'm furrowing my brow about it.
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Post by bismark »

i agree... i was rather underwhelmed by the final battle..
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RE: 38112

Post by Twister of Fate »

WARNING: INSERT SPOILER MESSAGE HERE, YADDA YADDA... yawn...

About the Elder Wand....

Can I just mention that even though the details get a bit messy, the main principle is the same as any other wand: The wand chooses its owner. Even though it's being passed on through disarming and killing, it ultimately decides who to obey.
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Post by Wisteria »

That's actually another thing I raised my eyebrows at, though, Twister. Remember how Harry went through wand after wand after wand in Book 1 before finding the right one? I don't understand why suddenly in the seventh book, it's a much easier thing for Harry to just disarm Draco and suddenly his wand works for Harry just fine.
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Post by A Mom, but not yours »

Maybe it was choosing... not Draco. <eg>
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