70863 Dealbreakers

[Zedability]

Also, not at all an attack on Zed, but man am I glad Marduk didn't have a list like hers when he first started dating me. I was pretty much inactive, didn't have much of a testimony, my emotional and mental health issues were out of control, despite owning my own business my motivation was pretty low, and I didn't know how to think and struggled to even try. It's only through my relationship with him that I've been able to work on and even overcome these issues.

Not that I would recommend all people to get into this kind of relationship. I don't think many people can be this mature. He's had to have the patience of a saint to not only stay with me despite my issues but to help me through them, and I've had to be very open-minded and accepting of both new ideas and all kinds of humor to stay with him, as well as loving him despite his problems when he felt comfortable enough to let them surface. However, though this route has been difficult, not at all what I would have expected, and almost certainly not what I would have chosen had I known from the beginning, I cannot express how grateful I am that this is the relationship I have.

Yeah, I'm not saying nobody should date people with those qualities. I just know that I am not the kind of person who could be in a relationship with unresolved mental health issues. If the relationship is founded in a mentally healthy place, I can deal with them if they come back, but I have too many control issues and needs to "fix things" to build an emotionally healthy relationship for either of us in that situation.

Similarly, I have no qualms about dating someone who had past testimony or worthiness issues, or even some who recently had a relapse of a past issue or who slips up while in a relationship with me. Or someone who is currently going through a crisis of faith but had a testimony at one point. But I'd be very hesitant to date someone who never had a testimony, or who never had something like a porn addiction under control for any appreciable length of time. And again, that's mainly because I don't trust myself to keep myself objective enough to see when it's not going to work for me, not because I don't think people going through these things should be barred from relationships.

I'll also freely admit that a large part of this opinion is based on the fact that these situations describe a previous relationship of mine, and that was emotionally manipulative enough that I just have a knee-jerk reaction against situations with too many parallels, even if they wouldn't actually be similar.

[bobtheenchantedone]

And that is perfectly fine; I'm glad when people really think about things and know what they personally can handle in a relationship. That, more than anything else, is how someone should go about dating and finding a partner. However, I feel that a lot of people have things on their list that they haven't really thought about and/or are just there because because that's what culture has taught them to value, when they could be missing out on a lot of great people because of some arbitrary rules. Another example from my relationship: one of the first questions my mother and one of my friends asked me about Marduk was where he went on a mission (the implied question being "Did he go on a mission?" with the implied result of a "no" being a dealbreaker). When I couldn't tell them after the first couple of dates, they started giving me advice about how to casually bring it up so I could get that precious answer. Had I listened to them I might have dumped one of the best men on the planet when I got up the courage to ask and found out he hadn't gone on one. Instead I ignored them, and when it did come up organically I listened to his reasons for not going, found them perfectly reasonable, and the relationship continued.

[Zedability]

And that is perfectly fine; I'm glad when people really think about things and know what they personally can handle in a relationship. That, more than anything else, is how someone should go about dating and finding a partner. However, I feel that a lot of people have things on their list that they haven't really thought about and/or are just there because because that's what culture has taught them to value, when they could be missing out on a lot of great people because of some arbitrary rules. Another example from my relationship: one of the first questions my mother and one of my friends asked me about Marduk was where he went on a mission (the implied question being "Did he go on a mission?" with the implied result of a "no" being a dealbreaker). When I couldn't tell them after the first couple of dates, they started giving me advice about how to casually bring it up so I could get that precious answer. Had I listened to them I might have dumped one of the best men on the planet when I got up the courage to ask and found out he hadn't gone on one. Instead I ignored them, and when it did come up organically I listened to his reasons for not going, found them perfectly reasonable, and the relationship continued.

Exactly. And that's mainly what I mean with the "being able to think" clause on my list. Which is another one where I wouldn't just be like, you can't think! Begone with you! I just don't see relationships going well without people being mature enough to have their own opinions.

[Giovanni Schwartz]

I'm offended by Chrysanthemum. I no longer like you.

However, if any of you end up in Arizona and want to go on a date, I'm all for it.

Except for Chrysanthemum.

[Marduk]

However, if any of you end up in Arizona and want to go on a date, I'm all for it.

I'm holding you to this.

[Portia]

I have to admit that the type of man Chrys described first struck me as a conformist drone. I think my first instinct on a date with that kind of poster boy - ironed white shirt, door-opener, "good family," would be to rush ahead to get my own doors and try to ruffle his feathers a bit. I'm glad that the question and the pursuant discussion made me challenge my own beliefs some - why do I want someone a little odd, what's so wrong about being bourgeois or a "gentleman" or fitting in - and though I still think that I disagree, I think I can see the other side somewhat more.

Once you take off those two huge items - temple-worthiness, testimony, it really does things to the rest of your "list." Since I started dating less-devout guys (and this has been a longstanding thing, hearkening back to when I myself was fairly orthodox), it forced me to evaluate their behavior, ethics, and values outside the church system. I definitely don't think that everyone else here can or even should do this, but I definitely don't think that church attendance is a synecdoche for good morals. Just as a white shirt isn't necessarily a synecdoche for a corporate robot.

(I stand my ground on the dessert thing though. It's hard to read it as anything but whiny and manipulative.)

[Portia]

Oh, and as far as the actual question, "what's a dealbreaker?" I think I have one and only one. Well, two.

*college graduate or pursuing degree
*straight and high sex drive

[Giovanni Schwartz]

@Marduk. I'm straight. Sorry to burst your bubble.

@Portia, you don't want a gay guy? #sarcasm.

[Portia]

@Marduk. I'm straight. Sorry to burst your bubble.

@Portia, you don't want a gay guy? #sarcasm.

You two can have a double wedding.

And Gio, you definitely missed some fun on that topic on your mission. In a word, no.

[Talons]

Aside from the big ones already mentioned, my wife and I came up with two:

1. People who are too loud and argumentative. We both have white personalities, and I just cringe inside when someone is yelling their opinion at me, even if I have the same one.

2. People who think the honor code is silly and doesn't apply to them. I get that there's not really a difference between 12 and 12:05, but 2 is a different time entirely. You signed the honor code, so live it.

I'm also surprised no one mentioned practicing Jedi moves in the park as a dealbreaker.

[mic0]

I'm also surprised no one mentioned practicing Jedi moves in the park as a dealbreaker.

Probably because it is awesome? If that was one of my dealbreakers, then hopefully Mr. Mico would have just forgotten to tell me about the time he and a friend performed a jedi fight scene from one of the Star Wars movies at a Quark event. I just think it is hilarious.

[Emiliana]

Marx has several qualities that would once have been on my list of deal-breakers. When we met, I had to think long and hard about whether I was willing to change the rules for him. Even a month or so into the relationship I was still thinking, "This is either the best or the worst decision I've ever made."

[Katya]

Regarding dealbreakers, one thing that's been helpful for me is to learn to analyze and articulate the difference between internal personal characteristics and the surface expression of those characteristics.

So, when Portia says that she would only want to date a college student or graduate, my first instinct is to agree with her, but when I think more about why I would want that, I realize that the underlying characteristics I'm looking for are things like valuing education, being well-informed and curious about the world, and being comfortable around people who are college educated (because I am and those are the circles I move in). And while there is a significant overlap between people who have those characteristics and people who are themselves college educated, I can also think of some personal acquaintances who are exceptions, for various reasons, and I still respect and value their company in the same way as I do with those who are college educated. So, it turns out that a college education isn't a dealbreaker, for me, although it's still a likely characteristic in someone I would be interested in.

My reaction to some of the dealbreakers posted in the original question is that I'm not sure what underlying characteristic they're supposed to indicate. I imagine that Chrysanthemum's white shirt and dark socks rule indicate, for her, someone who is respectful, and that is a quality that I certainly admire. However, I've also known men and women whose insistence on a white shirt rule (for themselves or others) seemed to be rooted in judgmental attitudes or a belief in convention for its own sake or a focus on superficiality. And those are qualities that I find very troubling. And I've known men who I found respectful who eschewed the white shirt rule, mainly because they were also rejecting the second set of characteristics. So, I conclude that the white shirt rule wouldn't be a good litmus test for me, either way, because the qualities that I'm looking for might express themselves as wearing a white shirt or not.

And, frankly, I find this to be the case with almost all absolute "dealbreakers," as such. (The only one I can think of off the top of my head is abuse. If a guy were ever to hit me, threaten me, or attack me in any other fashion, I'd be out of there, with no regrets.)

[Marduk]

Gio, you're telling me every date you've ever gone on has only been with the possibility of pursuing a sexual relationship? That's rather shallow.

Katya, remind me never to play sports with you. (I once played coed basketball and accidentally elbowed a girl in the face. I still feel bad about that.)

I don't have any "dealbreakers" for the reasons Katya explained. I do, however, think that dealbreakers often say more about the people with the lists themselves than they really might think to begin with. There's a lot of themes of pop romance (which I despise, as I'm sure could've been surmised) in those lists, and that says what some people think about how "romance" should look.

[Katya]

Katya, remind me never to play sports with you. (I once played coed basketball and accidentally elbowed a girl in the face. I still feel bad about that.)

Ha! Well, I wouldn't consider that as falling under the definition of "abuse." (On the contrary, I'd probably consider it a compliment to be taken seriously as an athletic opponent instead of treated like a fragile girl.) But I don't really play sports, so it's probably a moot point.

[krebscout]

I don't know that I had any absolute dealbreakers, and all my break-ups were amicable and, honestly, pretty mutual. The last break-up before I got married was probably the clearest that we were incompatible - he and I both recognized that my personality, for some reason, kind of disappeared around him. Our souls didn't...overlap. Can I list that as a dealbreaker?

There was one guy who pursued me while I was dating Sauron freshman year, and we did end up going on a date together, but something about him really rubbed me the wrong way although he was checklist-attractive. I always got the feeling that he was pursuing me because I was a challenging target, and I could tell that I really wasn't his kind of girl. Even when he came back from his mission (a few months before Sauron did) and asked me to go to the park with him at night so he could sing songs to me and play guitar...sounds romantic, right?...it just smacked so much of "I want to win you over before your missionary comes home, I will conquer..." Okay, not exactly a "dealbreaker." Maybe genuineness is the quality I'm trying to get at.

That's unfair, he may have been more genuine than he seemed to me, but if so, he had terrible taste because he and I really weren't a good match. And strangely I found a bunch of his "poetry" in my old files years later.

[Zedability]

I don't really have a list, just vague ideas of what I want. And then I wanted to answer the question, so I basically just sat there and thought about what I hated about one relationship I had and what I really appreciated in another one.

[Squirrel]

my list
- I HATE pretty boys. It's like they're doing me some kind of favor by flirting. the "I'm hot and your not" is my all-time biggest turn off. EVER
- I want someone that I can talk to without feeling embarrassed. Either that, or doesn't make a big deal about all the embarrassing things I do because honestly- it happens a lot to me. Embarrassment.
- Honesty is a must. I'd rather hear that you have a boil in your belly button than to hear that you were afraid what I'd think about it, so you lied and said it was a birth mark (this is purely hypothetical, but the principles remain.)
- I want a man that makes me feel safe. Not necessarily big muscles, here. I'm talking Spiritually safe. Honors his priesthood safe. Maybe secure is a better word
-I want someone that will take me to the temple. NO EXCEPTIONS. If that means that I never get married in this life, so be it.
-I want a man that is not afraid to get dirty and sweaty while doing work.
-I want a man that wants to be happy.
-I want my home to be a place that invites the Spirit.

[Zedability]

my list
- I HATE pretty boys. It's like they're doing me some kind of favor by flirting. the "I'm hot and your not" is my all-time biggest turn off. EVER
- I want someone that I can talk to without feeling embarrassed. Either that, or doesn't make a big deal about all the embarrassing things I do because honestly- it happens a lot to me. Embarrassment.
- Honesty is a must. I'd rather hear that you have a boil in your belly button than to hear that you were afraid what I'd think about it, so you lied and said it was a birth mark (this is purely hypothetical, but the principles remain.)
- I want a man that makes me feel safe. Not necessarily big muscles, here. I'm talking Spiritually safe. Honors his priesthood safe. Maybe secure is a better word
-I want someone that will take me to the temple. NO EXCEPTIONS. If that means that I never get married in this life, so be it.
-I want a man that is not afraid to get dirty and sweaty while doing work.
-I want a man that wants to be happy.
-I want my home to be a place that invites the Spirit.

I do like your list. Maybe just because it describes someone I know

[Squirrel]

I like to be open and honest about my feelings. I don't like playing games. That's just not me. Sometimes embarrassment/awkward moments happen when being honest, but I think, "Well, I guess if you don't like what you've heard as a result of me being honest, I guess you're not for me".