#52499 - Unpopular Opinions: Agree, disagree?

vorpal blade · Post by **vorpal blade** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:20 pm

Cuddlefish wrote:As long as we're on the subject of unpopular opinions, the <i>Twilight</i> series is a bunch of badly written books that qualify as emotional porn.

I wonder if you would care to go a little further in your unpopular opinion. Was Stephenie Meyer doing an evil thing when she wrote the Twilight series? Should those who read her books feel shame for reading them? Is it a good idea to confess to your bishop that you read "emotional porn," given all the counsel we have against indulging in porn?

Waldorf and Sauron · Post by **Waldorf and Sauron** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:55 pm

Ooh if you can use the word Porn to describe any vacuous thing, I'll give it a shot: are pixie stix "flavor porn"? Is Jon Schmidt "Musical Porn"? The possibilities are endless!

NerdGirl · Post by **NerdGirl** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:18 pm

I refer to journal articles that have lots of flashy pictures but lack any relevant scientific content as scientific porn.

krebscout · Post by **krebscout** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:44 pm

Nah, I get it, if it sets up unhealthy expectations/demands for relationships the way porn does. But I've never read Twilight...or viewed pornography...so I'm not an authority here.

vorpal blade · Post by **vorpal blade** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:00 pm

I once said in a city council meeting which was discussing an ordinance to control pornography, "Knowledge of pornography is like knowledge of billiards. A little knowledge is the sign of a gentleman. A great deal of knowledge is the sign of a misspent youth."

Nanti-SARRMM · Post by **Nanti-SARRMM** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:16 pm

vorpal blade wrote: I wonder if you would care to go a little further in your unpopular opinion. Was Stephenie Meyer doing an evil thing when she wrote the Twilight series? Should those who read her books feel shame for reading them? Is it a good idea to confess to your bishop that you read "emotional porn," given all the counsel we have against indulging in porn?

For the record, evil or not, pornography or not, I do feel shame, or at least remorse for spending those hours reading them.

Although... I do have a friend who having read the books, and uses that to get girls. It's... interesting.

Cuddlefish · Post by **Cuddlefish** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:26 pm

krebscout wrote:Nah, I get it, if it sets up unhealthy expectations/demands for relationships the way porn does. But I've never read Twilight...or viewed pornography...so I'm not an authority here.

Krebscout has the general idea of what I'm trying to say. Too many girls (and boys) get into their heads that a good, healthy relationship is one where you've got a highly attractive guy or girl who is obsessively into you, to the point they stalk you and are dangerously protective of you. In addition, if you really love them, your life should be completely distroyed if they ever decide to leave you. It's an added bonus if they also happen to be a pedophile five times your age who would like to kill you so they can drink your blood.

I'm not saying it's bad if you read them. I'm not saying the books themselves are inheirently evil (although the writing is pretty bad). I'm saying it's bad if you let them become your definition of what a healthy, stable, loving relationship should be.

Tao · Post by **Tao** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:44 pm

Cuddlefish wrote: I'm not saying the books themselves are inherently evil (although the writing is pretty bad).

On a somewhat related note, (and yet still quite fitting for this topic, I suppose) I would like some input from readers as to the merits of some of these new mega-popular books? I've not read Twilight but I have heard similar comments as to the quality of the writing, and yet it's success in unquestionable. I have read the first Harry Potter and the first two in the Eragon series, and found nothing worthy of the respective uproar about either. True, one was written by a single mother struggling to make ends meet and the other by a 15-19 year old. So there is novelty there, but the writing really is pretty poor, in my opinion. I can understand that to many, Harry Potter represents the first novel they've read since college or high school, or at all. In that respect, I recognize the power of Rowling's writings, but I can't see the appeal to people who were already readers and had been exposed to other writers' more subtle usages of literary tools.

Giovanni Schwartz · Post by **Giovanni Schwartz** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:37 am

Sometimes, Tao, after 12 hours or more in the sun at work, I come home, want to read, and DON'T want to think. It's times like those when I read Harry Potter. Eragon, on the other hand: I've read them all once, just so that I can discuss them, but I don't think I've reread any of them. Which is saying something, because there aren't many books I've read more than a year ago for the first time that I haven't reread. (In case you're wondering, I'm going to read Dune next. Out of curiosity, have any of you read it? Was it worth it?)

krebscout · Post by **krebscout** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:03 am

Read Dune? Heck yes. Worth it? Totally. But then I am kind of a scifi nerd. Still, worth it just for the massive amounts of references in pop culture.

Katya · Post by **Katya** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:14 am

Giovanni Schwartz wrote:(In case you're wondering, I'm going to read Dune next. Out of curiosity, have any of you read it? Was it worth it?)

Dune is fabulous. The most amazing thing about the book is that there's a little epigraph at the beginning of ever chapter that basically tells you exactly what's going to happen and instead of ruining the surprise, it motivates you to read the chapter and figure out how and why it happened.

Harry Potter is much better than Twilight, if only because it's not about obsessive stalker love.

Whistler · Post by **Whistler** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:22 am

what! Katya, this is not helping me with my assertion that epigraphs make for cheesy prose.

Post by **bobtheenchantedone** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:48 am

On excellent writing -

I am a reader, have been since kindergarten, yadda yadda yadda, and I still very much enjoyed the Harry Potter books. I also love the Redwall books and The Cat Who series. I realize that all of these books have rather average writing, and in the case of the last two, most of the books have pretty much the same formula as all the others and I'm almost reading the same story over and over. On the other hand, I love the Discworld books because they are so well-written, and I recently got very excited to read books by Joseph Epstein because I actually had to think while reading.

In many cases, especially with books targeted more towards children, the quality of the writing doesn't matter as much as the actual story does. It may seem that quality of writing and quality of story are inseparable, but I think that they are not. And I must admit that all the things I admire in Discworld novels and Epstein essays would seem out of place in the exciting world of Harry Potter or the world of animals in the Redwall books.

Also, look at the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Obviously there's a fantastic tale in those books, as evidenced by the wonderful movies, but I had the hardest time getting through the books. And so have many other people that I know.

Imogen · Post by **Imogen** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:01 pm

you know what AWESOME children's book i just re-read?"the westing game." if you haven't read it, GO READ IT. oh man. i forgot how amazing it was.

Fredjikrang · Post by **Fredjikrang** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:13 pm

I just read The Westing Game not so long ago. It was pretty good.

TheBlackSheep · Post by **TheBlackSheep** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:22 pm

Imogen, this is just one more reason to like you. <i>The Westing Game</i> was one of my very favorites growing up. I still read it from time to time.

Katya · Post by **Katya** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:37 pm

Whistler wrote:what! Katya, this is not helping me with my assertion that epigraphs make for cheesy prose.

I guess there's an exception to every rule.

Imogen wrote:you know what AWESOME children's book i just re-read?"the westing game." if you haven't read it, GO READ IT. oh man. i forgot how amazing it was.

The sun sets in the west (just about everyone knows that), but Sunset Towers faced east. Strange!

Imogen · Post by **Imogen** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:59 pm

thanks back sheep!!

i read it in 6th grade and got to play turtle, which meant i was the coolest person ever. when i found it at the airport i started reading it and didn't put it down until i finished.

vorpal blade · Post by **vorpal blade** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:19 pm

I've read the first two books in the Twilight series. They were fun to read, but I didn't consider them on the level of Jane Austen novels, for example. The Twilight books certainly had story elements that one could find objectionable. However, one of the reasons I read modern popular books is to try to understand what other people think is exciting reading. I enjoy studying other people. One of my daughters was eager to read the books, and I was eager to find out why.

I used to read a lot of science fiction, but not so much any more. I read Dune about 30 years ago. I enjoyed reading it very much. For learning about popular culture it was a good thing to read. I read a number of the sequels, but the quality seems to have gone down, especially after the author lost his wife to cancer, I believe it was.

Tao · Post by **Tao** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:55 pm

Giovanni Schwartz wrote:(In case you're wondering, I'm going to read Dune next. Out of curiosity, have any of you read it? Was it worth it?)

LotR:Fantasy::Dune:Sci-fi

Yes, it's that good.