Saving for your kids' education

[NerdGirl]

heh, I hold about the exact opposite philosophy. If my class+extracurricular load ever dropped to the point where my grades max out, I'd feel like I was shortchanging my education. I'd like to graduate with a GPA of 3.14, just to see how many employers notice.

Tao, I might have agreed with that before I decided I wanted to go to medical school. My 3.3 undergrad has made that really difficult. But I do agree that ending up with a GPA of 3.14 would be awesome!

[Dragon Lady]

Yellow and I have talked a lot about this lately. We come from completely opposite backgrounds.

My parents couldn't afford to help me. I started with a scholarship and Pell Grants. I treated college like high school and thus my grades suffered and I lost my scholarship. And my parents somehow became "rich" in the eyes of the government and I lost my Pell Grant. But they weren't really rich at all. They were farmers that finally got out of some debt. I worked three jobs (not as bad as it sounds) to pay for school and focused on getting my grades up. The next few years were full of completely ridiculous exceptions to all rules that kept me from getting scholarships, so I continued to work, taking one semester off to work full time and a second job in the evenings. I bought a car and a cell phone and the only thing my parents helped pay for after that was health insurance. I ended up taking out student loans to pay tuition, which I've completely paid back within two years of graduation, I think. And I'll argue that paying for college makes some people appreciate it a whole lot more. It sure made me, anyway. Once I realized how much it cost me to get an education and how hard I had to work to get scholarships, I jumped on that bandwagon. My mom once tearfully told me that she wished they could do more to help and I told her that I was grateful that I had to do it myself. And that was in the middle of a very lean monetary time. I'm still grateful I did it myself and I always planned that I would teach my children fiscal responsibility as children and they'd pay for their own as well.

Yellow, on the other hand, worked growing up to save for his mission. What he lacked for that, his parents paid. So when he came home, he was quite penniless and starting college. So his parents helped him out heavily that first semester or two, then as he got a job and started paying for things himself, they started weaning off their support until he was paying most everything for himself. He never went into debt. He fully appreciated his education; perhaps more than I did, even. He always expected to do the same for his children.

Which makes for a lot of discussion between us now that we have a child and we need to start making decisions about saving money for college or not. We both intend to teach our children how to work. I very much disagree with imogen saying, "'m planning on saving what i can and hopefully letting my kids avoid working while in high school in college." I mean, if they've never worked when they get out of college, what company in their right mind is going to hire them? How much harder will it be to start a real job when you haven't had any part time jobs? My kids are going to learn at a young age how to work and I fully expect them to have jobs of some sort during high school. Even if it's washing windows in the neighborhood like Yellow did. I fully expect my children to have a savings account, filled by them, by the time they go on their mission and to college.

But after that point? We're not sure what we're going to do. We'll probably compromise somewhere in the middle. I won't deny that I'm grateful for the generosity of Yellow's parents. I'm grateful that he didn't have debt on top of mine. And I was horrified that he would have to pay off part of my debt. That was never in my plans. It will probably depend heavily on each chlid. Our children more like me we'll probably work harder to instill the value of work in. We'll probably have to push them harder to fully grasp the value of education. Our children more like Yellow won't be as difficult. (In general, Yellow is and was a much less difficult person than I. He just does what he's supposed to.) They'll value education on their own without having to be forced into seeing it the hard way. Now just how to do that without making those children jealous…

We've loved reading all of the ideas in here. So many different backgrounds and opinions. It has given us a lot to consider. Last night we discussed letting our children take loans from us instead of the bank. And we also talked about setting up a savings account for $X and they can use it to pay for college or they can have it when they graduate. And then we'd focus on teaching them the value of interest and show them how much more money they'd get if they let that money sit there. We liked both ideas. And maybe we'll use both. I don't know.

Point is, those that are single, you may have very set ideas now as to what you want to do, but just wait until you get married to someone with exact opposite ideas. Those are funtimes.

[Imogen]

Dragon Lady, I did have on campus jobs and worked during the summers. But I never worked more than 10 hours a week while I was in college, and I didn't have a job at all in high school because I was always out of town during the summers visiting my dad and gone most weekends doing speech tournaments. And I expect my kids to do the same unless they use their summers for studying/going abroad to study (it's so much cheaper than a whole semester)/doing an unpaid internship. Perhaps I was unclear in my last post. I don't expect my kids to NEVER work, i just don't want them to have to work during the main school year so they can focus on their studies, do extracurriculars, and even veg out now and then.

i had no trouble getting a job after college because i became a substitute teacher. all districts need subs, and i worked almost everyday until my non-profit job came up, and then i left the non-profit job for full-time teaching. so i'm not worried about my kids finding jobs eventually. but we're all assuming things will be the same when our kids go to college. i'm guessing there will be a huge paradigm shift in the next 10-15 years in how we view education that will make this conversation moot.

[Dragon Lady]

Imogen, ok, sorry. I guess I misinterpreted you. I thought you were saying that your kids wouldn't work at all and that just… well, astounded me. I'm glad that it was just a misunderstanding.

[Indefinite Integral]

I have similar ideas to a lot of you. My dad didn't want my sister and I to not go to college due to our financial situations, so my mom interpreted that as helping us through whenever we needed it (my dad died when I was in high school). My sister and I both had generous scholarships. She had the Hinckley, I had a National Merit Scholarship (full tuition). My sister never had a real job of any sort before graduation and was able to get a job within a month of graduation, so it is possible. However, her major had a 6-month unpaid internship set up for her automatically at the end of her college career. I worked during the summer, and occasionally during the school year even though my mom was willing to pay for everything. I felt guilty taking my mom's money when I could provide for myself and I would get really bored being not in school and not working.

I don't know that all of my kids will be like me, and I don't think I will want to pay for all of their education, but I definitely want to be able to help them out, especially when it comes to giving them the opportunity to keep their scholarships. I know if I had been working more than 10 hours a week during the school year my grades definitely would have suffered.

Right now I feel like my opinions are closest to C4's parents' plan. My mom kind-of implemented that with me, helping me out with a few things when I moved into my first non-furnished apartment since she hadn't given me as much financial support as my sister.

I'm going to have to think about this some more. Oh, and get married so I might actually have kids sometime in the future.

[Dragon Lady]

I find it interesting that we all say, "We grew up with this, so this is how we're gonna treat our kids, too." Only once or twice has anyone said, "I grew up like this and I'm NOT going to do it that way." I guess when it comes to the financial end of college, parenting styles tend to be inherited.

[Unit of Energy]

I also think that for the most part all of us here would say that we had decent parents, so the parenting styles will be much the same, at least in our current single states of mind.

[ahem.]

I find it interesting that we all say, "We grew up with this, so this is how we're gonna treat our kids, too." Only once or twice has anyone said, "I grew up like this and I'm NOT going to do it that way." I guess when it comes to the financial end of college, parenting styles tend to be inherited.

I think it's less about respecting our parents' parenting decisions, and more about trying not to mess up a good thing. For the most part, we think "Hey, my college experience was exactly what I needed it to be. So that's what I want for my kids too."

[thebigcheese]

Absolutely, parenting styles are inherited...because that's what we're familiar with, so we don't necessarily know the benefits of doing it any other way. When people say "my mom did it this way, and I turned out fine!" in some ways, it seems like they are deliberately ignoring any hope or possibility that they might have turned out even better.

[Katya]

Absolutely, parenting styles are inherited...because that's what we're familiar with, so we don't necessarily know the benefits of doing it any other way.

Not necessarily. If we think our parents were bad parents, in some respect, we may try to do things completely differently.

[Dragon Lady]

It's true. I love my parents and think they did a great job raising us, and I'll probably utilize many of their techniques, but I'm also fully aware of many things they did that I do not want to do with my children. In a way I think it a blessing for me. I'm able to learn from the weaknesses of my parents and turn them into strengths in myself. Many of those things were strengths in Yellow's home, so it works out nicely for us. I'm hoping my kids do the same: Take our weaknesses and make them strengths in their future homes. I hope our generations just keep getting better and better.

[thebigcheese]

Absolutely, parenting styles are inherited...because that's what we're familiar with, so we don't necessarily know the benefits of doing it any other way.

Not necessarily. If we think our parents were bad parents, in some respect, we may try to do things completely differently.

Yeah, but I'm talking about the good things our parents did. How can I articulate this...remember that one talk about good, better, and best? That's how I was thinking about it. So, maybe what our parents did was good...and because it was good, you never even think to try and improve upon their methods. But maybe there's a better or best way of doing it.

I know that my husband has introduced me to some interesting (and sometimes superior) ideas about all sorts of things that I never would've considered before I got married. Not because I'm opposed to them. I just never would've thought of doing it that way because my parents did things differently!

[Katya]

Absolutely, parenting styles are inherited...because that's what we're familiar with, so we don't necessarily know the benefits of doing it any other way.

Not necessarily. If we think our parents were bad parents, in some respect, we may try to do things completely differently.

Yeah, but I'm talking about the good things our parents did. How can I articulate this...remember that one talk about good, better, and best? That's how I was thinking about it. So, maybe what our parents did was good...and because it was good, you never even think to try and improve upon their methods. But maybe there's a better or best way of doing it.

No, I get what you're saying. If we think what our parents did was good or good enough, we may not think of trying to improve it. I'm just saying that your premise presupposes that we think our parents did a good job, at all.

[thebigcheese]

And I suppose that's true. I probably should have addressed that better. If we recognize our parents' errors, hopefully we would try to correct them.

[Katya]

And I suppose that's true. I probably should have addressed that better.

Nah, I'm just pulling a Laser Jock and holding you to your exact words. Don't mind me; I think everyone understood what you were saying.

[Dragon Lady]

And I suppose that's true. I probably should have addressed that better.

Nah, I'm just pulling a Laser Jock and holding you to your exact words. Don't mind me; I think everyone understood what you were saying.

[snort]

[Imogen]

i just thought of something to add to this:

why should we expect an 18 year old to be able to fully support themselves? an 18 year doesn't even have a fully developed brain yet! why was 18 the magical age when a person should be an adult and support themselves? or even 17 if a kid is born in the summer? i couldn't even afford an emergency room visit when i was 24 and had an actual emergency (dislocated knee), how could i expect a 17/18 year old to handle paying for college, rent, health insurance, car insurance, phone, and all the other STUFF you end up needing? i couldn't have done it when i was 18, and would've changed my plans to go to a school my mom could afford to pay for that was still good, but i was lucky enough to get a lot of money from vassar. but there was never a question that my mom was going to help me because i was still a kid.

[Tao]

Interestingly enough, I just had this conversation yesterday, but arguing the other way around. Why must we wait till 18 to be considered 'adult'? It wasn't that long ago that a 16 or 14 year old was expected to do the same jobs as a 20 year old. I know some as mature and mentally acute at 14 as some are at 21. Why set the line so low?

Then again, I was often on my own from about 10 up, so experience plays a role, I'm sure.

[TheAnswerIs42]

I can't look at my exact finances back then, obviously, but I do know that despite earning most of my money from babysitting and odd catering jobs for a company my mom worked for, I was able to buy my own car in high school. My parents taught me to be self-relient when I could, and never just waste money. But on the other hand, I don't think I could have afforded the rent/meal plan at DT for an entire year, and I am incredibly grateful for that experience. I guess the moral is to teach your kids to earn and save as much as they can, and then fill in the gaps when that isn't enough.

As another story, my husband felt strongly about earning the money for his own mission, after watching his parents struggle to pay for his older siblings. So he worked really hard and earned all he can, and then gave the money to his mom when he left. I wasn't the entire cost, but it was close. She refused to use it. My husband is still upset about it to this day. He worked very hard, and sacrificed a lot to help out his parents and not be a burden, but she wouldn't take it. In fact, he believes the money was cursed- his older brother found some "sure investment" and asked to put the money in that, and after growing quite significantly for months it dropped to almost nothing the day before he got home from the Phillipines.

So, I don't know about college, but our son is going to have a mission fund he is going to contribute to as soon as he starts earning money.

[Dragon Lady]

My parents would have refused mission money, too. They always claimed that their biggest blessings came when they were paying for a missionary. Even though the were poor, they often said that they couldn't afford not to be supporting a missionary. Somehow, even though logically finances were harder during those years, finances were always easier to cope with. My mom was actually nervous when my last brother got home from his mission because she'd no longer have her missionary blessings.

My aunt feels the same way. In fact, when she no longer had missionaries to support, she gave my mom a checkbook with a check written out for each month for my brother's missionary fund. All because she knew the blessings that supporting a missionary would give her.

So maybe his parents wouldn't accept his money because they knew they'd need those blessings.