Babies

[stantz]

This is a question to all board readers / writers with children - how did you know when you and your spouse were ready to start a family? My husband and I have been married for two and a half years, and we're starting to talk about it for the first time ever, and I guess the whole idea is freaking me out. Any advice? Thoughts? Words of comfort? I'm sort of at a loss here.

[krebscout]

Like marriage or the temple or what have you, you're never ready. Financially, mentally, emotionally. In so many ways becoming a mom the first time was way easier than it seemed everyone had made it out to be, and now sometimes I'm finding it much harder in ways I never expected. Of course, it changes everything. But boy is parenthood fun.

[stantz]

Krebscout - Thanks for the response. If you don't mind sharing, what were some of the unexpected difficulties? My husband and I are going to start trying and just hope for the best. My biggest concern is that I'm still in school, and I worry about juggling motherhood with classes (or at least being pregnant and sick and in classes). We've talked about waiting till I'm finished, but by the time I finish my grad program and then finish my Phd, well, it'll be a long time. Any thoughts about balancing mommy-hood with school / work / life?

[TheAnswerIs42]

Hmm, that sounds scary. The biggest difficulty I found is realizing that you can't just GO anywhere ever again. Whenever I am on vacation without my kids I am shocked by the idea that I can just decide to go somewhere and get in the car. Once you have kids, you have to plan when you go based on nap times and meal schedules (which eat up half of your day), then pack everything you need (because the snacks and diapers get used every time you go out), then convince the potty-training kid to go to the bathroom, then make sure everyone has shoes, find the missing one, herd them towards the car (which always takes far too long), then strap them into the car, and THEN you can drive away. Not to mention how long things take once you get there.

So, trying to maintain classes while you have kids? Yikes. I was very glad I didn't try to do that, but that's just me. How set are you on that Phd? I ask, because once you have kids you will see it as a much heavier load than you did before. You will have to find someone to watch the kid for every single class, and find time to study away from the kid for every single minute you currently study, and that is a lot of time away from the baby. Someone has to take care of the baby, whether that is you or your husband or your day care or something, you have to arrange who is taking care of the baby every single minute.

Something to think about.

Like krebscout said though, I don't think you are ever really ready. I wasn't- that's why I didn't answer at first. My first child was a surprise, and I remember pacing in the hospital after he was born and wondering what on earth we had gotten into.

[thebigcheese]

I don't have any experience with babies...but grad school? I know lots of grad students (even though I'm not one myself). Most graduate programs are so time-consuming that you aren't even allowed to have a job. And grad school is generally (though not always) even more demanding than undergraduate coursework. Most of the graduate students I know spend basically their entire day on campus, working on their thesis or dissertation. I used to work with a guy who was always there until 10pm or later. His wife hated it, but it had to be done. Of course, it all depends on your program and its demands. Might be a good idea to research the programs you're interested in and ask about the time commitment before making any big decisions about school or family life.

I just don't think that would mix well with children, unless you're doing daycare or your husband is planning to be a full-time dad. I know of exactly one mom who did it (with kids who were slightly older). She studied late into the night when the kids were in bed. And she said the trick is that you basically learn how to not sleep anymore.

[stantz]

42 - Thank you for adding your thoughts. I am very determined to finish my schooling, including getting my PhD - although that doesn't need to happen right away. My husband and I had a long talk about the timing issue last night, and we came to realize that our lives will never get less busy. I don't plan on being a stay-at-home mom - my husband has a job with a fairly flexible schedule, and I hope that we can work out a schedule where we can both care for our child (or children). I guess my thought is, it might be best to have the baby now, while I'm at BYU (which seems to be more family-friendly than most places), so that by the time I'm working we can arrange for day care and scheduling my husband's and my work accordingly.

I guess I'm just most concerned about the pregnancy bit, and the first while after the baby is born. My husband will be able to take a few weeks off of work once the baby arrives, but is grad school + a newborn just completely insane?

[stantz]

The big cheese - I must have posted my response to 42 while you were writing too I actually am currently working and juggling my grad program (and the research that I have to do), so I'm kind of hoping that my balancing skills will get better...? Or at least not completely disappear. I'm counting on daycare for at least a few hours a week, and like I mentioned in my other response, my husband will be a stay-at-home dad at least part time. I just hope it's enough.

[thebigcheese]

Well, whatever you do, just know that it will be difficult.

Also, one thing about pregnancy and classes. I had a friend who did that and she would occasionally have to leave class to go throw up somewhere. So, just be prepared to deal with stuff like that.

[stantz]

yay... puking...

[krebscout]

Or you may never puke. I didn't throw up during either pregnancy (except while actually giving birth. Broccoli. The worst). You may get sick, you'll probably get very tired. Symptoms vary a lot per person and per pregnancy. Bring snacks.

Now that I have two very very young children and about three different money-making schemes going on, I'm amazed at how much I can pack into my days. I used to think my schedule was packed to the max, but then I squeezed in another baby. Because you do what you have to do, and somehow it works. Nobody has died of neglect yet.

As for the challenges, I'm starting to get a little bit of cabin fever some days. I thought it was hard to get out of the house with one kid, but like 42 said, it's exponentially harder with two. And that will probably get worse as my newborn gets older and loses the ability to sleep through anything. I do miss my ability to spontaneously go anywhere, even somewhere as boring as the grocery store to pick up something I forgot. There's a lot of repetition and tedium with caring for very young children. So most of the challenges have been, for me, mental. It's a trick to keep yourself sharp and interested in life in general while spending months and months feeding for 4 hours a day and changing diapers 8 times a day. Then suddenly you have a funny and interesting toddler who becomes your little best friend. You may have a very different experience than I did, as you'd be mixing the challenge and interest (and stress) of school in with infanthood.

Anyway, I gotta go get my son out of his crib now.

[Dragon Lady]

I'll disagree on one tiny bit. I was ready to have a baby. That could have partially been due to me not getting married until I was almost 25 and ready to be married for several years prior. (Yes, I was one of those girls.) And I want a decent-sized family (number yet to be determined) and knew that unless I wanted to be having babies into my late 30s or 40s, I'd better start soon. Also, I had absolutely zero desire to be a working woman. I mean, I've liked all of my jobs I've had, but the thought of working at a full time job for the rest of my life was not appealing in the slightest. I've always wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. So I don't know that my experience helps you at all in determining timing.

For me my biggest struggles were 1) At the beginning. I had a 6-week maternity leave from work, then I worked from home for another 6 weeks to finish up all of my projects and hand my duties off. It was hard. I often only got 2-4 hours of work done during the day because I was feeding Dragon Baby, or trying to get her to sleep, or trying to get me something to eat. Or taking a nap because I was exhausted. Often times I would only get 2-4 hours of work done by the time Yellow got home. And those were with Dragon Baby in a wrap, sleeping, while I wrapped my arms around her to type on my computer. She'd get fussy in the evening, just in time for Yellow to get home, so he'd take her outside and walk her (where she'd calm down) while I would work like crazy to get everything done. I breathed a sigh of relief when I finally quit and got to enjoy the precious baby I had.

2) Stress. I tend to stress easily. I've found that when my house is a mess, I stress even more. And when my baby cries, I can feel my nerves completely raw. I often have to walk away and calm down before I can deal with it. So I've had to find little things to do to keep my stress-levels low. Like picking up my house throughout the day. Getting out of the house, even if it's just the park, library or grocery store. Have friends with kids that Dragon Baby can play with. Or along side, rather. I've learned to read her cues better, to know when she's hungry or tired. Because if I can keep her needs filled, she's a much happier baby, which means I'm a much happier mommy. If I can feel good about myself, I can stay calm, even when she's fussy or needy.

Really, the biggest trials you will have are learning what you have to change for a baby. It's different for every person. You really do sacrifice your life for your children. That doesn't mean everything you love has to go. Oh, heavens no. I still do plenty that I love to do. I just figure out how to do with a toddler in tow or during nap times. (I love blessed nap times. Like right now!) It's just that life becomes different. You can't stay out all night with your friends anymore because the baby's bed time is at 7 or 8. You have to plan your VTing around nap times or when your husband is home. Same with all other errands. Try scheduling a dr. appt. Hah!

But really, I kind of fear telling you about the struggles. Because it scares people off. Trust me. When you get that first smile, that first giggle, all that stress and frustration wash away. When you get to rolling, crawling, standing, walking, life becomes ridiculously exciting. The laughter of a baby/toddler is infectious. My favorite time of day, by far, is about a half an hour before bedtime when Dragon Baby starts getting tired and gets wired. She becomes so hilarious and cute. It's like a defense mechanism: "If I'm super cute, Mom and Dad won't put me to bed!" The giggles and smiles and crawling and flopping and peek-a-boo during that time lifts my heart and makes me the happiest person alive. Listening to her say her first words (uh-oh, cracker, yesssss, no!, aww-duh) or learning to stack blocks or keeping herself entertained by reading books or putting toys away is absolutely fascinating. Watching a baby learn is like discovering the world all over again. You'll never know how many yellow things there are in your house until you point them all out to your toddler to help werf learn about colors. Leaves are fun to play in again. Baths are a water park. Dressing up is thrilling. You truly see the world from a different perspective and it's thoroughly enlightening.

[vorpal blade]

To answer your first question, stantz, we were married, so it was time to start a family. Our first child came less than ten months after we married. We trusted the Lord that if we did what was right, and we felt having a family was what was right, things would work out. We didn't stop to think about whether we were emotionally, financially, or mentally prepared to have children. And things worked out fine for us and our seven children.

[Yarjka]

As a grad student whose child was born recently, I can offer some insight into that. I'm a man, though, so it's a different perspective. What I've noticed is that, while yes, having a baby is time consuming, it's not impinging all that much on my studies. I've just sort of naturally reformatted my life in order to make time for the important things -- that is, my job (school) and my family (wife and child). Rather than miss out on study time to make time for the baby, I instead cut out things like going out to eat, watching movies, reading the newspaper, cleaning the house (okay, I should make time for this ... maybe someday), etc. That said, my wife is getting maternity benefits that make it so she doesn't have to go to work, so that helps a lot. Also, the timing couldn't have been better, with the baby coming right at the beginning of the summer break, so we were both home with the baby for those first months.

My supervisor encouraged me to have a baby. She also encouraged one of my fellow graduate students (a female) to have a baby. In fact, it seems like my department has a lot of new families in it. Of course, I'm here in Canada where maternity benefits are quite good and maternity leave is mandatory. I could even have taken a year of (unpaid) paternity leave if I had wanted. I'm not sure what the situation is in the U.S., but you might want to look into it before deciding to have a child.

As for the decision itself, we had moments of doubt ("what the heck are we thinking? we can't handle this!") throughout the entire pregnancy. Once the baby came, we were certain we wanted her and certain we could handle it (although there were some extremely difficult periods -- breastfeeding, sleepless nights, etc.).

One piece of advice - I know breastfeeding is amazing and has great benefits, but if you're trying to juggle school and work and home, formula is really the way to go. You just won't have time for pumping all the time. Try to make it six weeks breastfeeding, but don't beat up on yourself if you need to switch in order to make extra time. As a father, I appreciate being able to help out with the feeding. It was always difficult to have to pass my daughter off to my wife, who was exhausted, tired, and still in pain, and only being able to watch and ask if there was anything I could do to help (there wasn't). Of course, this is just based on my experience -- you may have no problem breastfeeding; in that case, go for it. Basically, I guess my real advice is to do what works for you in your household -- don't be so concerned about following the childcare manuals to the letter.

[stantz]

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate hearing both the positive experiences of parenthood and some of the scary/frustrating stuff. Don't worry, Dragon Lady, I haven't been scared away from the idea yet. It's also nice getting feedback on things that I hadn't previously considered - Yarjka, thank you for bringing up the breastfeeding issue. I hadn't thought how that could change because of my class schedule, so that's definitely something that I'll need to plan for. And Krebscout, I do hear a lot about the mental challenges of being a new mom, so thank you for adding that. I hope that being in school will help with that particular frustration.

I'm wondering, is anyone willing to share their experiences with what happens immediately post-birth? Not necessarily the gory details, but I understand that labor is hard on the body (duh), and hence comes with its own unique set of recovery issues. So, new question, what was your (or your wife's) recovery time like? It sounds as though at least a few of you were able to take some kind of maternity leave - how long before you (or the Mrs.) were back on your feet? What things about your recovery do you wish that you'd known before giving birth / getting pregnant? For those with more than one child (Vorpal or anyone else), did this change at all with each birth?

I really do appreciate everyone's input thus far, thank you for your willingness to share your stories.

[Dragon Lady]

Recovery time is very, very much based on your labor. If you have a c-section (which 33% of women in the US do) then you'll be down for several weeks as your belly heals. If you birth vaginally and have an episiotomy, you'll be down for at least a week and a little sore for several weeks thereafter. If you birth vaginally and don't have an episiotomy, but tear, it depends on how bad your tear is and if you'll need stitches or not. If you birth vaginally and don't tear (which happens most often when giving birth naturally because you can feel the birth and thus know when to push and all that jazz, which allows your body to stretch properly and not tear) then I know people who were up and going and feeling great that same day.

So really, there's no exact answer for you. Sorry on that.

For what it's worth, I was in the vaginal, no episiotomy, but tore group and by the end of the week I had made two batches of bread and was out and about every day (though, that was more due to Dragon Baby being jaundiced and we had to keep taking her to get her blood tested). I recovered pretty quickly. Though, I was really sore for about 3 days and could barely walk to get to the bathroom. Luckily, that period coincided nicely with my stay in the hospital. So by the time I came home, I was good to go.

[Dragon Lady]

Oh, but if you're asking about being fully capable of going back to school/work/etc., I'd give it at least 6 weeks. Those 6 weeks are the hardest. Babies are the fussiest during that time. Wake up the most during the night, are more demanding on food, etc. You'll have a 6-week post-partum checkup with your doctor who'll give you the go-ahead to do more demanding things. (They also recommend you don't have sex until that checkup, especially if you had to have stitches for an episiotomy or a tear.) You'll also bleed for a lot of that time, too. And can't use tampons. So be stocked up with plenty of pads.

[stantz]

Wow, baking bread by the end of the week? You are a trooper, Dragon Lady. So, I take from your first response, that you are more inclined toward natural child birth? My husband and I had an... er... discussion... about this last night. I prefer the idea of a natural childbirth (in a midwiving center), but he would rather go the route of the hospital experience where doctors and medicines abound. Where did you give birth, and would you choose something differently if you could do it again?

[vorpal blade]

I was going to say much the same as what Dragon Lady said, but she beat me to it. But since I started to answer this question I'll do a little repeating.

Times have changed. When I was born a long time ago mothers often stayed in the hospital one or two weeks. The doctors have since decided that it wasn't necessary to stay that long, and in fact the body would heal faster if the mother had to get up and move about as soon as she possibly could. My mother knew she could get up and take care of things earlier, but she enjoyed the vacation and being pampered. Cynics might say that the insurance companies' unwillingness to pay for such vacations had a lot to do with the hospitals releasing the patients as soon as possible. Plus a stay in the hospital has become much, much more expensive over the last sixty years. I think the generation before my mother was also different, with no hospital stay, and children born at home.

Anyway, it does take longer to heal and feel comfortable doing things at home if you tear, or they had to cut you (to put it in non-medical terms). How long it takes before you feel completely back to normal depends on your age, general health, and general physical shape you are in. Exercise beforehand can make a big difference. Also, some women are built better for giving birth (wider hips, or something like that). It was easier on my wife when she was in her twenties. Generally there was a lot she could do just a day or two after giving birth, but complete recovery can take weeks or months. Well, my wife could have answered this better than I can.

[Dragon Lady]

I do tend toward natural birth. And I gave birth in a hospital, with midwives. Most hospitals have midwives associated with them. I haven't heard anything about the Provo hospital. I haven't heard good things about the Orem midwives. I don't know if Timp has specific midwives, but I know the Timpanogos Women's Center midwives (located next to the American Fork hospital) deliver at both Timp and AF. I used the Timp midwives and loved them. It was nice for my first time being in a hospital setting, just for a feeling of security.

For my next birth I am seriously considering a birthing center. I even have one picked out. Not that I have anything against the hospital setting, really. Mainly for two reasons: 1) The L&D bed killed me. I bruised my tailbone in 8th grade and it still bothers me if I sit wrong and/or for too long. That bed was a far cry from comfortable. I took more painkillers during recovery for my aching tailbone than I did for my tear and stitches. Seriously. I'm all about using a real bed next time. 2) They don't let you eat in the hospital. Clear liquid diet only. I was there for 22 hours before I got to active labor (I was induced) and by the time I got to where I really needed my energy, it was completely sapped. I labored mostly in the tub and as I was walking back to the bed, I had to lean on Yellow because I couldn't stand on my own anymore. I'm sorry, but broth and popsicles aren't the way to go when your body desperately needs energy. In the birthing center I'm considering (and I think most centers) they not only allow eating, but they also encourage it. Heck, they have cupboards stocked with snacks!

The biggest fear I have with the birthing center is that you only get to stay there for 4-6 hours after the birth (I believe you can pay more to stay longer) and I remember how sore I was last time. But maybe I'll get lucky and won't tear next time? They say that's common, actually. But I could barely walk to the bathroom for a few days. And if I do a birthing center, I'll have to walk out to my car, then up 3 flights of stairs to my condo within 6 hours. This frightens me. But not enough to convince me otherwise. Honestly, the ability to eat during labor greatly outweighs my fear of climbing 3 flights of stairs. I just don't do well without food. At all.

[krebscout]

I had a c-section with my first and a vbac for the second. And I have to say, I was surprised that my recovery for the vbac wasn't all that much easier. It may have something to do with the fact that we moved eight days later, so I spent that week packing and lifting and all sorts of stupid things that I should not have done. Plus there uh...were a few things that went kinda strangely that concerned me more than they should have. All better now, but I think it took me a little longer than it should have to feel better. I couldn't stand up for any long period of time for a few weeks - I felt completely bruised and beat-up. I did have an epidural, and while that may have contributed to some of that beat-up feeling afterward, I really needed it at the time. My labor was 42 hours and I hadn't slept for two nights because of it, so that epidural let me sleep for a few hours and actually sped up my labor. And it often slows down labor for other women. I never went into labor at all for my first, had a very relaxed c-section (he was breach), and then, of course, it takes a while to be able to stand again and you need a little help for a week or two, but I don't remember feeling as crummy all-around as I did this time. Happens differently for everybody.

Six weeks is a nice time frame - that's the usual maternity leave allowance, and the baby's schedule gets a little more predictable, feeding gets well established by then. And your hormones get back in balance a little. Baby blues and all that should be dissipating.

I had Midwives for my second, but I still had to be in the hospital with an OBGYN on call because of my previous c-section. I'm not sure there was much difference for me between the two experiences in that sense. Also, differing from Dragon Lady's experience, I did get to eat during labor in the hospital. I shouldn't have, because I threw up four or five times, but I did. I also found that my hospital bed, though not as comfortable as my home bed, was infinitely more comfortable than being 41.5 weeks pregnant. Sleep never felt so good.