Random Maids a'Milking!

[Craig Jessop]

YOU GUYS

I have the BEST pet project ever. I've totally discovered a bunch of primary documents about the history of the Church in Brooklyn DATING FROM THE TIME OF JOHN TAYLOR AND ORSON HYDE!

[ahem.]

Primary sources are the best! Congrats, Craig.

[thebigcheese]

TEXAS ROADHOUSE OPENS IN OREM TODAY!!!!!!!!!

My husband's birthday is in a couple days, so we're going there tonight with my brothers. And we are EXCITED! Heck yes.

(As a sappy side note, the last time we ate there was right before he proposed. Awww... He knows the road to a Texas girl's heart -- it's paved with BBQ sauce.)

[krebscout]

I find myself quite adept at finding flimsy reasons to skip church this month. Should probably stop practicing that particular skill.

Mmhmm. Hide that light under a bushel.

Our church attendance became dodgy at the end of my pregnancy, mostly because either I felt awful or our son got sick. Boy how I missed it. And now, with a newborn, I'm missing at least one meeting each week to feed her, and sacrament meeting is a constant game of trying to keep my toddler quiet. I'm excited for the day that both of my kids are in nursery and can keep each other entertained during talks.

[Emiliana]

I have this recurring nightmare that I'm still in school and realize I haven't shown up for one of my classes all semester and I'm going to fail. Last night it was an algebra class that I had been skipping -- suddenly I had to teach myself a semester's worth of algebra so I could take my final exam ... I was standing in a classroom talking to a friend and saying, "But I've been a teacher for the last year and a half! Why do I have to be back on THIS side of the classroom again? I want to be back on THAT side!"

So now that it's morning, and I realize that I actually never have to take algebra again as long as I live, why do I want nothing more than to go back to sleep instead of to get up and go teach ... ?

[Emiliana]

I don't know that I want a romantic relationship, just a well defined relationship.

I chuckled at this sentence the first time I read it, Unit, and I thought of it again just now -- I sent an email which I hope will lead to a conversation which I hope will lead to a more well-defined relationship with someone. Possibly my utter intolerance for ambiguity will kill this relationship altogether, but at least there will be nothing ambiguous about its death.

[vorpal blade]

I have this recurring nightmare that I'm still in school and realize I haven't shown up for one of my classes all semester and I'm going to fail.

For probably twenty years after my last regular class which I had taken for credit toward a degree I had a similar nightmare. I dreamed that I had signed up for a class and forget I was enrolled until the end of the semester. Just so you know...you might continue to have your nightmare for another twenty years.

[vorpal blade]

I don't know that I want a romantic relationship, just a well defined relationship.

I chuckled at this sentence the first time I read it, Unit, and I thought of it again just now -- I sent an email which I hope will lead to a conversation which I hope will lead to a more well-defined relationship with someone. Possibly my utter intolerance for ambiguity will kill this relationship altogether, but at least there will be nothing ambiguous about its death.

Well-defined relationships are over-rated. Give me ambiguity.

[NerdGirl]

I have this recurring nightmare that I'm still in school and realize I haven't shown up for one of my classes all semester and I'm going to fail.

For probably twenty years after my last regular class which I had taken for credit toward a degree I had a similar nightmare. I dreamed that I had signed up for a class and forget I was enrolled until the end of the semester. Just so you know...you might continue to have your nightmare for another twenty years.

I have the same nightmare! And it's always high school French or social studies, and it's at my high school, but somehow I'm actually in college. And I also can't remember my locker combination in it.

[Unit of Energy]

Ambiguous relationships are all well and good, but when one party is or has been interested in the other, definition is needed.

[vorpal blade]

I'm having a hard time understanding why definition is needed, Unit of Energy. If I don't understand my own feelings, how can I comply with another's demand that I clarify the relationship? It seems to me that a requirement to define the relationship is just putting pressure on someone to make up his or her mind, or to commit to something someone is not yet ready to commit to. Reminds me of a high pressure salesman trying to clinch the sale. I don't like such tactics. Give me time to work it through, think about it, pray about it, consider it from other angles. Just because one party is interested does not mean that the other party must be rushed to make a judgement. Give me space. Allow me to exercise my agency. Don't twist my arm to define something not yet ready to be defined. Don't pry open the flower petals in a rush to see what is inside. Flowers open up on their own time, and not when one party is just interested.

Or maybe I have no idea what you are talking about.

[thebigcheese]

Two things:

1) Definition allows both parties to sit down and say, "Okay, we are dating each other exclusively." Without that clarification, it's hard to know what is appropriate behavior and what is not. They'll have questions like, "Is it okay for me to kiss her?" or "Someone else asked me on a date -- will he be offended if I go out with this other boy?"

Or further down the road, "Should I buy a ring?"

2) It's not that uncertainty is bad. It's just that you can't keep stringing someone along forever because you won't make up your mind (just ask my husband -- he waited months and months and months to propose because I wasn't sure about it). Also, it helps the nice boys (and girls) who spend their time and hard-earned money on dates. "I've taken her on 30 dates, but I'm still not sure if she's interested!" or "We've been dating FOREVER! Is he ever going to propose, or am I better off looking for someone else?"

[Dragon Lady]

I look at it a bit differently. I don't think a relationship has to be defined in terms of dating or not dating. But I think open communication is essential. A guy (or girl) doesn't have to be vague if they're not sure what they want out of the relationship yet. But they should make it clear that they aren't sure what they want yet. It's frustrating to be on the other side and thinking, "Does he like me, too? Is he just a flirtatious guy? Is there any interest at all? Should I just be patient? Or if I'm patient am I going to find out in 4 months that he never had any interest at all and was just being himself, which just happens to be flirtatious?" Yellow and I went through a lot of that. But that's what was beautiful about our relationship despite the severely rocky road that it was built upon. Despite the many heartaches and breakups, I always knew exactly where he stood. I knew when he was still pining after another girl. I knew when he was actively trying to get over her. I knew when he wanted a relationship with me, when he was trying to sort out how much he liked me, or if I was just a rebound, I knew when he wanted to just be friends.

And yeah, some of those conversations weren't fun. At all. But they were well-defined. And that sure made life a thousand times easier, even when the situation was hard. I'm all about having a well-defined relationship.

[Unit of Energy]

A well-defined relationship doesn't mean that there isn't room for change. I just want to know what is appropriate behavior. I'm not demanding "Do you like me" I more care about the "do you mind it when". And sometimes that definition of appropriate behavior depends on a third party, such as a girlfriend. Thankfully she doesn't mind that he's one of my closest friends.

[Tao]

On dreaming: y'all are way too uptight about your grades if they have that deep of an impact on you, in my opinion. Then again, I've been there in real life and not cared, my subconscious probably knows it'll have no impact.

On defined relationships: Eh. My feelings for someone aren't conditional upon their reciprocation. Unless we're married, if seeing someone else is what would make her happy, go right on ahead. Same with anything else; if it makes her happy and doesn't stand to put her or others at harm, I'm OK with it. Such things have no impact on how I feel anyway, so I see no reason to try to exert control over them.

[Katya]

I have this recurring nightmare that I'm still in school and realize I haven't shown up for one of my classes all semester and I'm going to fail.

I used to have that nightmare every semester and I was finally getting over it when someone told me a story of someone they knew that it had really happened to, and then I started having the nightmare again.

[Katya]

On defined relationships: Eh. My feelings for someone aren't conditional upon their reciprocation. Unless we're married, if seeing someone else is what would make her happy, go right on ahead. Same with anything else; if it makes her happy and doesn't stand to put her or others at harm, I'm OK with it.

Right, but what if you thought you two were dating exclusively and then you found out she was also dating someone else?

[Tao]

Honestly? I'd be glad to hear it. Granted, I'd expect to see it taper off if we were engaged, but shy of that it'd be good to know.

An interesting line came to to mind earlier that I was just able to find: "I don’t love to get something in exchange. It is just a fact. “I’m in love” is very similar to “I’m bleeding.” Just an observation about my state, which may have some obligations attached. The world doesn’t owe an attachment to me." As a matter of course, love is very much one-sided. In the end, there is very little that someone can do to alter the state of another's love. I'd say it is a given that some are easier to love than others, and some are more prone to find themselves (or claim to do so) in such a state, but to actually cause someone else to feel or stop feeling love? I'm not convinced it is possible.

[Marduk]

How about this one? You are the one dating someone else, and SHE finds out, but she thought you were dating exclusively. What then?

[Emiliana]

On defined relationships: I think your view on this is related to a lot of other personality factors. I like closure. I will sit in my car for three extra minutes so I can listen to the end of a song. Like Dragon Lady said, I don't want to force someone to make a decision before he's ready, I just want some sort of communication to let me know whether he's ready. If he's already made a decision, I would like to know what it is.

Tao, I agree that loving someone doesn't necessarily need something in return. But building a relationship isn't quite the same thing. I can love someone without it being reciprocated, which I think might be my situation with this gentleman. But if I'm going to continue to invest in the relationship I would like to know that he is at least considering doing the same.

(Incidentally, the email hasn't resulted in quite as much clarity as I would have liked, but it's better than before at least: I should by no means think that he would ever ignore or avoid me on purpose. He thinks I'm spectacular and a wonderful person and he really enjoys talking to me and hopes we'll get a chance to talk very soon. He's really glad we're ... friends?)

On dreams: One semester I almost didn't drop a class in time. I'd been sick and had managed to go to most of my classes most of the time, but this one wasn't for my major so I quit going. Then suddenly the drop deadline was two days away and I had to hunt down the instructor and *hope* there was no problem finding her or getting her to sign off on it. There wasn't, fortunately, but that experience has haunted me ever since.