Find a talk

[Dragon Lady]

Ok guys. I'm stumped. As are the few Board writers I've enlisted help with on this thus far. (Who only had a few minutes to spend anyway.)

On January 11, 2011 at 7:00 am I listened to a talk on the Mormon Channel (radio) by Dallin H. Oaks entitled "Institute of Religion Devotional" which is very, very unhelpful. It was given on October 8, 1982. I have non idea what it would have been called, but I remember the first part talked a LOT about church courts way back in the day and how you had to go through them before you could go to a civil court if you wanted to keep good standing in the church. I remember thinking, "Wait, is that even still applicable? Why is he giving a talk on this anyway?" I totally missed the beginning, so maybe he said. Towards the end he then talked about a letter he got from this guy and a few encounters he had with other people and financial disputes. One had to do with getting backed into by a guy going to the temple and the guy said a few choice words and didn't want to pay for the damage and Guy A just felt bad for him because he was going to the temple with that kind of attitude, and accepted far less than it would take to repair the damage. Another story had Guy A (I assume the stories were all about the same guy) who had a dispute with a landlord and ended up taking him to mediation, then court over it. The court ruled in favor of the landlord. Guy A wrote him a nice long letter telling him that he still believed he was in the right, but hoped that the dispute wouldn't harm their relationship as brothers in the gospel. The Landlord wrote back telling him that he still believed he was in the right, but he'd been doing a lot of thinking about what Jesus would do and decided that when asked for his coat, he should give his cloak also and enclosed a check for double the disputed amount.

E. Oaks never made a definitive, "This is what we should do" statement. In fact, he kept saying, "Is that what we should do? I don't know." He even admitted that he had planned on giving another talk that night, but then that talk was published in the Ensign, so instead he was just giving his thoughts and musings on this topic. He even invited people to write to him their opinions and thoughts at the Supreme Court building (since he was a Utah Supreme Court Justice at the time).

So… anyone? Anyone? I'd really love a transcript of this talk.

[NerdGirl]

Well, there are no talks given by Dallin H Oaks on or near that date in the BYU Speeches or BYU-I speeches archives, and the BYU-H speeches archive only goes back to 1984. The CES fireside archive only goes back to 2001. So maybe that narrows it down a bit? Narrows it down to what, I don't know. Maybe if you sent them an email they would have more details, or maybe they would even be like, "Here's a recording of it for you!"

[Katya]

On January 11, 2011 at 7:00 am I listened to a talk on the Mormon Channel (radio) by Dallin H. Oaks entitled "Institute of Religion Devotional" which is very, very unhelpful. It was given on October 8, 1982.

According to the schedule at radio.lds.org, the January 11, 2011 7:00 am devotional was by Neal A. Maxwell. Are you sure you've got the date and time right? (Not that the schedule couldn't be wrong.)

[wired]

Dragon Lady,

I don't know about Elder Oaks talk, but I do know a (very, very) little bit about the history of Church courts. The use of them stemmed out of the traditions in most other protestant and evangelical traditions which were focused on excising members from congregations in order to maintain the integrity of the congregation. With heavy amounts of converts from these various backgrounds, there was an assumption that their new church community would have some sort of church court. Of course, there was. As the Church became a civil force (Missouri, Nauvoo, and especially on into the west) the ecclesiastical leaders had more community power than the official civil leaders. Members were taught they had to resolve issues through local church courts, which oversaw all sorts of issues - property disputes, torts, etc. The Church court essentially consisted of the Bishop hearing both sides of the party then deciding what appropriate measures to take. Generally, those not in compliance with the Court's wishes were threatened with excommunication. This continued through the entire 19th century, especially when skepticism of the true civil courts (federal courts over the territory and then early state of Utah) was rampant. (Church leaders gave talks indicating those who went to civil courts were essentially faithless and contemptible.) In the early 20th century, when the Church handbook entered existence, the nature of Church courts began taking a turn from this all-encompassing approach to maintaining the integrity of the Church. Through the 20th century, the stance that individuals should seek out a Church court on purely civil matters gave way more and more. There is no Church policy or program in place that indicates individuals should go to a church court before proceeding to a civil court, though I am sure that the Savior's admonition to take an offending brother alone and settle the matter between he and thee is still instructive as what our first reaction ought to be when considering civil litigation.

Nate Oman, a law professor at the College of William & Mary and prominent Mormon history blogger, has some excellent articles on it.
http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/20 ... unication/ - Evolution of excommunication in the Church Handbook
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... id=1092078& - Good overview of Church courts (click "One-Click Download" on the next page)

EDIT: OH, and Katya, that schedule is on EST. If you look at 9am EST (or 7am MST), it is indeed the Elder Oaks address on the date DL provided.

[Katya]

EDIT: OH, and Katya, that schedule is on EST. If you look at 9am EST (or 7am MST), it is indeed the Elder Oaks address on the date DL provided.

Huh. I thought I'd adjusted for that. OK, thanks!

[Dragon Lady]

Yeah, Katya.

wired, it's actually not the church courts part I'm interested in, though that was interesting, too.

NerdGirl, no, it's not in any of those because it's an Institute talk (at least, I assume by the title), not a devotional.

[C is for]

The Logan Institute has "Religion in Life" devotionals every week. I would suggest that this is where this talk came from except for they do not record any addresses. Also, the idea of an Apostle coming to Utah State is practically unheard of (okay, yeah, Elder Ballard will be here in a few weeks, but that's not for RiL). Especially back in the '80s. We just didn't exist back then. (And I personally didn't either, so that's just going off hearsay.)

My best guess is a Salt Lake Institute address. My next best guess is that he gave an address at some Institute in the nation. I think NerdGirl's solution is a good one.

[Dragon Lady]

Now if only I can find an email address...

[Katya]

You could also try contacting the folks at the radio station to see if they have more information about where the talk was given or its exact title:

http://radio.lds.org/eng/about/contact-us

[Dragon Lady]

That's who I figured I'd ask. If I'm lucky, maybe they could just send me a link to the audio, since they obviously have it. (Now whether or not it's available for live streaming is a different story.) Thanks for the Contact Us link.