#61726

[stargirl]

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/61726/

So, iWannaMeetYa said

I want additional ideas of meeting girls without them creeping out over new guys talking to them.

How do BYU ladies feel about new guys eating with them at the cougareat or any other place at BYU?

And I flipped because I, personally, think this is one of the creepiest things I have encountered at BYU. It was oxymoronic to me. My friend next to me says that it wouldn't be too bad if a non-creepy guy did it, but the majority of guys who do this are creepy. Since WannaMeet also said

they simply get creeped out by the easiest things when guys try to talk to them

…i'm inclined to think that perhaps he's just a creepy guy, and should look into other methods.

On a lighter note, this post reminded me of THiS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLPZmPaHme0

[Tao]

...it wouldn't be too bad if a non-creepy guy did it, but...

And this is the crux of the matter. Granted there are social norms that you simply do not cross; but there is quite an array of actions that fall into the realm where romanticism is determined by the reciprocation of affection. I've seen the spontaneous date-request spectacularly; I had a roommate that if his schedule freed up for the evening, could regularly snag a date by asking girls randomly on his walk home. While I can only recall seeing positive or neutral reactions to this spontaneity, I can't honestly say I know what separates the creepy from the romantic (or even shy of that: the fun) in this case.

...probably more on this later

[Marduk]

This is reminding me about percieved sexual harassment based on the attractiveness of the harasser; suffice it to say, harassment was not percieved as such when it was perpetrated by the attractive.

[Whistler]

right... I'm fond of the theory that creepiness just depends on the level of undesirability

[Cindy]

I think the guy may need to reassess his expectations. He seems to want someone very physically attractive, since he thinks that none of the girls in his ward or any of his classes are cute enough. But he can't be amazingly attractive himself, or he'd get a different reaction when he tries picking girls up. It sounds to me like he's only talking to girls who are out of his league, appearance-wise at least.

[stargirl]

right... I'm fond of the theory that creepiness just depends on the level of undesirability

Oh, i can certainly agree with this. But i have seen good-looking guys act in a creepy manner, and i've seen not-so-good-looking guys behave charmingly. Maybe they're exceptions to the rule. I'm just trying to say: i meant creepy behavior, not appearance.

I guess i'm just more concerned that he wasn't even interested in "getting involved to meet new people with similar interests" type-things. He seemed more interested in picking up random girls he'd never met. But it is difficult to judge over a couple paragraphs. Regardless, whether he is an attractive guy or not (in appearance or behavior), i think it really does depend on the girl, and it makes me uncomfortable.

[Katya]

This is reminding me about perceived sexual harassment based on the attractiveness of the harasser; suffice it to say, harassment was not perceived as such when it was perpetrated by the attractive.

I'd like to believe that there are limits on either end, though—behavior which would be considered sexual harassment, even coming from a hot guy, and behavior which is definitely not harassment, even coming from an unattractive guy.

[Marduk]

True, Katya. And actually, the thing I found most fascinating about that particular research was that it suggested that when the harasser is extremely, uh, opposite of good looking, it wasn't percieved as harassment either, and the harasseds actually pitied them.

[Katya]

right... I'm fond of the theory that creepiness just depends on the level of undesirability

Oh, i can certainly agree with this. But i have seen good-looking guys act in a creepy manner, and i've seen not-so-good-looking guys behave charmingly. Maybe they're exceptions to the rule. I'm just trying to say: i meant creepy behavior, not appearance.

I agree. I think that "creepy" has a lot more to do with gauging reactions and social appropriateness than it does with being attractive, but they're not unrelated. Ex., the attractive guy knows he's attractive and knows (based on past experience) that he can get away with using a pickup line on a girl he doesn't know. (Also, attractiveness itself has a lot to do with presentation and social awareness, so it's not impossible that attractive guys also tend to be more socially aware.) The average-looking guy who's also socially unaware tries to do the same thing but with bad results and can't figure out what he's doing wrong. The average-looking guy who is socially aware focuses on situations where he has a chance to get to know a girl before he asks her out (and, frankly, I think he may be in the best situation of the three).

I guess i'm just more concerned that he wasn't even interested in "getting involved to meet new people with similar interests" type-things. He seemed more interested in picking up random girls he'd never met. But it is difficult to judge over a couple paragraphs. Regardless, whether he is an attractive guy or not (in appearance or behavior), i think it really does depend on the girl, and it makes me uncomfortable.

It would make me uncomfortable, too. (Of course, I'm not one of those 10s he's looking to pick up, anyway, so he'd probably leave me in peace.)

[Katya]

True, Katya. And actually, the thing I found most fascinating about that particular research was that it suggested that when the harasser is extremely, uh, opposite of good looking, it wasn't perceived as harassment either, and the harasseds actually pitied them.

Ohhh, I can see that. Poor guys.

[Katya]

This whole conversation is reminding me of an undergrad I knew in my (tiny) Illinois student ward who was obsessed with transferring to BYU to marry a Mormon pre-med. I wanted to find a way of pointing out to her that, yes, there are probably more LDS pre-meds per square foot at BYU than anywhere else in the world, but there are also more LDS doctor's daughters at BYU who are intent on marrying someone of their same social class and this girl was . . . not likely to be competitive in that group.

[Craig Jessop]

This whole conversation is reminding me of an undergrad I knew in my (tiny) Illinois student ward who was obsessed with transferring to BYU to marry a Mormon pre-med. I wanted to find a way of pointing out to her that, yes, there are probably more LDS pre-meds per square foot at BYU than anywhere else in the world, but there are also more LDS doctor's daughters at BYU who are intent on marrying someone of their same social class and this girl was . . . not likely to be competitive in that group.

Poor thing.

[Katya]

This whole conversation is reminding me of an undergrad I knew in my (tiny) Illinois student ward who was obsessed with transferring to BYU to marry a Mormon pre-med. I wanted to find a way of pointing out to her that, yes, there are probably more LDS pre-meds per square foot at BYU than anywhere else in the world, but there are also more LDS doctor's daughters at BYU who are intent on marrying someone of their same social class and this girl was . . . not likely to be competitive in that group.

Poor thing.

Well, she never did transfer to BYU and she's actually doing really well at having more self-confidence while being single, so I think she'll be OK.