SAHM

[Defy V]

Marduk edit: Question 62329, for reference.

I think I understand what Hypatia was saying. Right now I have a research job where I sit at a computer screen and write programs and read big hard textbooks and scribble down equations in my lab notebook and try to write intelligently about the brilliant things I'm making up. It requires lots of brain power and it can be kind of exhausting. And I only put in about 10 hours a week right now!

Thus, on the surface motherhood looks easy. Changing a diaper? No Fourier Transform required for that! Putting together a shopping list? No harder than the free-response section on an exam!

However, I think there are different kinds of hard. It is really hard for me to do . . . just about everything not involving a calculator. Phone calls, lifting stuff, calming kids down, not forgetting items at the grocery store . . . these can be just as difficult for me as homework and tests.

So what's my verdict? I'm going to say that since being a SAHM is a lot more thankless and repetitive than most jobs (at least for the first few months after the baby is born), it's harder. It might not require as much of your keen intellect but it stretches you in unfamiliar ways.

But I do agree with this statement: If you pour your heart into your work - whether in your professional career or with your kids - you will never be bored.

[Dr. Smeed]

Yeah, try listening to a baby scream for an hour and a half when there is nothing you can do about it. That is far harder than some free-response fourier transformer thingamabob.

[Dragon Lady]

Here's my goulash of thoughts here:

Yellow suggests that there is a difference between a job being hard and a job being skilled. Which, I think is the factor that was forgotten in that answer.

For what it's worth, I talked to Hypatia today and she said:

What I was trying to say, which didn't come out well, is that not every stay at home mom works harder than every working mom
there is a spectrum of how much a sahm works just like there is a spectrum of how much a working mom works

Like, I really think the whole thing got blown way out of proportion. She was not trying to say what everyone else thought she was trying to say.

Lastly, a reader emailed Hypatia about it and part of which said I was a jerk to her in my answer. This cracks me up because I'm not a writer. I saw the question via g-chat, I wrote my answer in text edit and sent it back via g-chat. I didn't even see the rest of MSJ's answer, let alone Hypatia's, until maybe a half an hour ago. Which means I wasn't being a jerk to Hypatia at all. So really, this just cracks me up. So my question for the rest of you is this, What did I say that could have been construed as an attack against Hypatia? I really am curious. In a very amused sort of way.

[Hypatia]

I think the reader saw what MSJ said and thought that you had written the letter.

But the reader is not far off. You are always saying mean things to me.

Here are some things that DL has actually said to me:
"...everyone hates you."
"...shut...your...Pie Hole."
"...you...are...poop."

I think the evidence speaks for itself.

[Dragon Lady]

Oh yeah? Well remember when you said this to me?

"I think that all SAHM's are stupid and don't use any of their brains. It's not like it takes any effort at all to raise kids. that's what nannies are for."

And mine didn't even include ellipses. But if you want ellipses, let me provide these:

"...chill out and stop being so RUDE. … Dragon Lady... yeah. Jerk…"
About a real photo of mine, "I always thought that picture was photo shopped" (Oops… I forgot to include ellipses. My bad.)
"go sniff a jock strap because you are ... a jerk"

I think my saying rude things to you is well deserved. I mean, dude. Your feet are so tiny that Dragon Baby could fit in your shoes. And you're so ugly you break mirrors by looking at them with your four eyes!

[Hypatia]

I fully endorse every quote above.

[Dragon Lady]

I fully endorse every quote above.

Every one? Including by those up above? Like this?

I understand…Hypatia

[Imogen]

i thought genuine article's response was the only one that came off a little hard on the reader. i dunno, it came off kinda like a rant instead of trying to be helpful. really, sky bones answer and dragon lady's were the best, imo.

also, to all of you who said working moms can't do the same things sahm moms do: you're wrong. my single, working, dating mother managed to work shifts at the airport as an air-traffic controller, love me, keep our house spotless, teach me to read, and cook dinner on the nights she was home (like i said, shifts man...they sucked) with no help at home. no housekeeper, no husband to split chores with, just her. did i miss my mom, yeah. but she made sure i was getting incredible care when she was away. things were certainly not always easy for us, but i always knew she loved me, and she was ALWAYS there when it mattered the most.

and yes, sometimes she needed to get away from me and being home and just go out and have fun. that's human nature. but once i got old enough we would do things together, like go see plays. it was relaxing and fun for both of us, and a great way to spend time together.

[Ramoplot]

The main thing I got out of this was that it is not a black and white comparison. Obviously being a SAHM or a working mom are extremely different situations. But at the same time, there is a wide range of situations and attitudes out there. There are some moms that work and still spend a ton of time at home w/ kids, and vice versa. There are also sahms that are amazing and do everything and work very hard, and vice versa, and everything in between.

[Dragon Lady]

I think the thing all of us should remember is that the OP was simply asking what a SAHM does all day. And the drama is all centered around another point all together.

[C is for]

Yes, the point that being a secretary is low-brain power. I'm not offended by Hypatia's statement, even though it makes me sad. Maybe if I worked harder I could be an engineer but instead I'm a secretary. How am I ever going to be a successful mother if I can't even work hard enough to get a real job?

(Really. I wonder about this all the time.)

[thebigcheese]

Asking ANYONE (not just SAHMs) a question like "What do you DO all day?" can either be construed as simply inquisitive or extremely rude...depending on voice inflection and intent. If you ask it the wrong way, it sounds like you're implying that the person does absolutely nothing worthwhile during the day. And that would make you a jerkface. So...don't do that.

[Dragon Lady]

Asking ANYONE (not just SAHMs) a question like "What do you DO all day?" can either be construed as simply inquisitive or extremely rude...depending on voice inflection and intent. If you ask it the wrong way, it sounds like you're implying that the person does absolutely nothing worthwhile during the day. And that would make you a jerkface. So...don't do that.

Except the OP specifically said that she was curious and didn't want to sound rude.

[Marduk]

Again, go back to Sauron's point. You can't say "You're an idiot! No offense." The problem is that she can't possibly imagine that maintaining a household is more than a part time job.

And Imogen, I do agree that many single mothers work extremely hard (harder than anyone I know) but the point remains that no matter how good someone is, they can't do the same job in a few hours a day as someone who works a dozen hours at it. At the risk of offending many here, and with the caveat that whether a stay-at-home mother (sorry, I hate the acronym) or a working mother, their efforts and capability run the gamut from lazy to workaholic, given the same amount of effort, a mother who stays at home will be able to accomplish more than a mother who doesn't. (Of course, the same would be true for a stay-at-home dad, that's just not what we're talking about in this question. And then there's a whole other question of just how much a parent ought to do for their children. These are both great points that need exploring.)

Lastly, I'm of the opinion that no job is as tough as being a parent, again, with the caveat that many don't put forth a lot of effort, there simply is no field where one can invest as much time in such a diverse set of activities. No discipline can compare to caring for the mental, emotional, spiritual and physical well being of one or more other human beings.

[Dragon Lady]

Again, go back to Sauron's point. You can't say "You're an idiot! No offense." The problem is that she can't possibly imagine that maintaining a household is more than a part time job.

And she realized that. She was saying, "I have a really hard time believing this. But everyone says it is so. Can you help me understand?" She wasn't asking the question to be offensive. She was asking the question to understand something that made no sense to her.

[thebigcheese]

Asking ANYONE (not just SAHMs) a question like "What do you DO all day?" can either be construed as simply inquisitive or extremely rude...depending on voice inflection and intent. If you ask it the wrong way, it sounds like you're implying that the person does absolutely nothing worthwhile during the day. And that would make you a jerkface. So...don't do that.

Except the OP specifically said that she was curious and didn't want to sound rude.

Yes, but I'm also speaking generally. I think the OP was pretty tactful about it.

[Waldorf and Sauron]

Somewhat in agreement with Dragon Lady, I think there is really something to be said for the fact that the reader not only had a viewpoint that, obviously, irked some writers, but also came with the attitude of "I think my viewpoint is probably wrong—help me figure this out." In this, I don't think the intent to offend or not offend is as relevant as the degree of willingness to interrogate one's own viewpoint.

Here's an example to make the distinction (inspired by an actual board question in the archives):
1. Racist stereotypes about blacks didn't just come from nowhere. Isn't it true that some stereotypes about blacks are correct about many black people? (Not all of them of course.)
2. I find myself thinking that racial stereotypes about blacks are often true. I realize that sounds pretty racist, but for some reason I can't stop thinking like that. Am I wrong? Please help me understand where my thinking might have gone wrong.

Neither of these are, I think, intentionally trying to be offensive. Both hold offensive, racist viewpoints. The difference is that #1 seeks a confirmation of his beliefs, while #2 openly invites correction of her beliefs. I believe that #1 would probably provoke a much harsher response.

[krebscout]

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/54383/, in case anyone was as curious to re-read the racist question as I was

(and then: http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/54468/)

[Whistler]

But I do agree with this statement: If you pour your heart into your work - whether in your professional career or with your kids - you will never be bored.

I disagree. I have a data processing job, and even if I "pour my heart" into it, it is just as boring as before. I think there really are some tasks that are boring to some people, and I think that SAHMs have a lot of these boring things to do (cleaning comes to mind). However, I think the upside to the SAHM job is the potential for variety, despite many boring tasks prescribed by the role.

[Dragon Lady]

Maybe that's why I've always wanted to be a SAHM. I've never minded boring tasks. My favorite jobs were tedious. In fact, the interview for my longest (and most favorite) BYU job included the boss saying, "This job is boring. Mind-numbing. Tedious." etc. I didn't know how many synonyms there were for that!

When things are boring I can think or multi-task, or listen to books on tape or conference.