the Mrs. wrote:I really want my home to be led by a Priesthood holder--I don't want to be the one to have to spiritually lead my family all the time.
I grew up with a very forgetful dad and a very reminder-y mom. Left on his own, my dad doesn't pay bills on time or remember to make appointments or do a lot of the daily / weekly spiritual things mentioned in this post. So my mom is the one who takes care of a lot of these things or reminds him to do them. It works for them because she likes making plans and taking charge of scheduling and he's happy to have someone else handle that. (I feel like I'm short changing my dad a bit here, so I have to add that his in-the-moment nature is a huge blessing in other ways. He's wonderful with young children because he's extremely patient and can work at their pace. He taught Sunbeams for 7 years in the ward where I grew up, which is something my mom definitely couldn't handle.)
Anyway, when I read quotes like the one above, I find myself somewhere between amused and baffled, because I don't see what the big deal is with having to be the one in charge of remembering the daily or periodic spiritual stuff. (After all, it sounds like the husband in question is perfectly willing to go along with his wife when she wants to read scriptures or talk about spiritual things; he just doesn't tend to remember to do them on his own.) So if his personality doesn't lend itself to initiating couples scripture study, why can't she step up and do it herself?
That said, I've heard this sentiment from more than one woman, so I'm aware that it's not just an isolated incident, but that many women are genuinely frustrated with this situation, even if I don't see what the big deal is.
I wonder if this woman (and others like her) grew up with a father who was a "spiritual leader" in the ways she mentioned, and so that's her model for what a husband is. Alternately, maybe that's not what she grew up with, but it's something that she's idealized for other reasons (because of gender expectations or as part of some nebulous definition of what it means to preside).
It seems to me that they both need adjustment in attitudes and behaviors. I think that daily scripture reading is CRITICAL to a healthy spiritual psyche, regardless of what the writers who chose to pipe up have to say about it. This would include as a couple and as an individual. And not wanting to get "caught" reading the scriptures? Really? Is that a thing? Is this some sort of behavior we need to be ashamed of? I get reading in a quiet and solitary place, but to insinuate that because of this, the wife would never ONCE find him reading his scriptures? That stretches credulity.
Personally, I think it is lazy of either gender to expect the other to always initiate this sort of thing. I understand that there are personal situations where it might work out best for one to be the one to always initiate, but I think it best if the burden isn't placed entirely on one gender. The portion you quoted, Katya, bothers me, because it implies that because I hold the priesthood, it is always my responsibility to make sure that scripture reading/family prayer/FHE happen. That's not how my home will be run.
I didn't read the entire question and answer, but I think that if something is really important to one person (in any relationship, not even just a marriage) so that they always are the one to initiate it, but that the other person is supportive and goes along with, that's not a problem. Being like, "Hey, I know you always do this thing I like to do when I initiate it, but I want you to be the one to initiate it," is just a disaster waiting to happen. In my family my mom was always the one that asked someone to say a prayer, just because she was the one who always thought to do that. If she wanted my dad to pray, she would ask him to pray. She wouldn't be like, "Hey, you need to figure out when I think it's time to say the prayer and say it without me asking you." (We didn't have a set time for morning and evening prayers, they just happened when my mom decided that there was an appropriate break in the action.)
And Katya, your parents actually sound quite a bit like my parents. My mom was always more organized and structured and my dad was a lot more laid back and patient. Neither of them were extreme about any of those things, but there was enough of a personality difference that it translated into my mom being the one that makes sure stuff gets done (not necessarily doing it herself, though, she would ask my dad or us to do things, but she'd be the one to keep on top of it) and my dad being the one that got down on the floor and played with our toys with us. My mom is just obsessive about certain things. If you take a plate out of the cupboard because you're going to use it, but you put it down on the right side of the sink, and then you turn your back for a minute to go and get food to put on it, and she walks by, she'll just unconsciously wash it even though it's still clean. She just is like that. And my dad is very much not like that.
What we're missing in all of this is the husband's perspective. We don't know if he wants to study his scriptures and needs help to remember or if he's just not interested or if he honestly hasn't thought about it. I suppose I assumed the first option because I read my own life experience into it.
Personally, I could relate a lot to this question. I'm fairly certain I could have asked it back when I was newly married. The thing for me is that each couple has their own balance that they find. It doesn't matter what roles "should" be done by each person, you just have to work out which method is going to work in your particular marriage. I have seen marriages fully opposite from mine, but as long as that balance works for them, that's fine.
With that being said, my husband is very much the leader in our home. That's the way we are both comfortable. I get nervous making decisions and putting my foot down about things, and I like my role as the more reserved person. That's not to say that he bowls over my opinions, but that in most things, most of the time, he leads lovingly and respectfully in our home. That's our dynamic. So it was very baffling to me to find out once we got married that if I didn't insist on spiritual things they didn't happen. It doesn't fit the rest of the dynamic. Like the question said, if I didn't tell him it was time for scriptures or prayer or whatever, it didn't happen. My husband doesn't like to read, but that had nothing to do with it. It was across the board with religious matters - FHE, prayer, even bringing up religious thoughts in daily life. If I didn't push, it didn't happen. And since I am not the type of person to push issues, that was rather difficult for me. I pushed a lot at first, and then less and less, and eventually gave up.
Here are some points in the answers that stuck out to me:
*This isn't about how much he likes to read. She was concerned about how laid back he is with ALL spiritual matters, and scripture reading is just an easy one to guage measurably. I think Rating Pending picked up on that.
*I completely disagree with GE's comment that this is none of her business. Last week Sister Ann Madsen came to speak to our stake, and one of the things she remarked on was a moment a few years into her marriage (to Truman G. Madsen) when she realized that his salvation mattered as much or more to her than her own. If you care about your own spirtual well being, then how your spouse is doing matters just as much. This wife is concerned that religion is not a priority for her husband, because it is a big priority for her. That's valid.
*Queen Alice seemed to think the "Priesthood should lead" element was just something she just needed to give up on. And in some ways I can see that - if it is important to you, you have to keep pushing, even if you don't think you should have to push. But she isn't out of line for expecting that. The idea of a family lead by Priesthood in the home is certainly ingrained in our culture from Primary songs onward. The reality is that if he isn't going to lead, she has to step up, but she's not out of line for expecting that leadership initially. I'm not saying that I entered into marriage expecting that he would lead in all things at all times, but I didn't expect to be dragging him through scripture reading like a sled behind me in the snow.
*Kudos to Rating Pending for listening to his wife's kind and constructive criticism. That's great. That, to me, is one of the best parts of a marriage - improving each other along the way. It is really hard to hear tough things from your spouse, because their opinion of you matters more than anyone else's. I know for me, often my first knee-jerk response is to be defensive and hurt, and it takes some humbling and introspection to really listen to the person who knows me the best and work on changing things.
In case you were wondering about my household, we had a lot of frank talks about this once we settled into marriage a bit. I hope that the person who asked this question gets to that point too, because that's the only way to make progress. For us, it came down to realizing that if it was important to me, I had to make it happen in our house. I hit a rough patch in spirituality a couple of years back and told him that I no longer felt like it was important to me anymore, and therefore wouldn't be pushing anymore. I told him that if he wanted things to happen in our house, he had to step up. And for the most part, I think my husband has the good intentions, but no follow-through on this sort of thing. I hear a lot of "we should go to the temple someday soon" or "we should do FHE sometime", but not much action. Maybe someday I'll get motivated again and work to change that, but for now that's about where I am at too.
I think another thing to realize is that she said, "I don't want to be the one to have to spiritually lead my family all the time." She wasn't saying that she wants him to do it all the time. But that she would like him to lead sometimes, too. I agree. When you lead spiritually all the time, it's really easy to think that you're the only one that cares, so when you have a bad day and don't lead, it all goes down the drain and doesn't get done. It's much better when both parties are involved. I know Yellow and I have done best with couple scriptures when both of us make an effort to remember and instigate. When only one of us brought it up every night, eventually that one person would get tired and it ended up stopping completely.
Even with personal scriptures, I know I'm a lot more motivated to read my scriptures when I see Yellow reading his. It's like I can justify not reading mine when he's not reading his or something. Which is ridiculous, but true.
Point is, both should prioritize it and instigate it. She shouldn't have to do it all the time.
This question was a lot more interesting, and still grammatically and situationally appropriate, when I mentally substituted "sex" for "scripture study."
Portia wrote:This question was a lot more interesting, and still grammatically and situationally appropriate, when I mentally substituted "sex" for "scripture study."
I did the exact same thing
I'm pretty sure it's the use of the word 'initiate' that automatically cued my mind to go there... If you do a google search for "my husband won't initiate", 'sex' is by far the most common conclusion to that sentence.
Portia wrote:This question was a lot more interesting, and still grammatically and situationally appropriate, when I mentally substituted "sex" for "scripture study."
I did the exact same thing
I'm pretty sure it's the use of the word 'initiate' that automatically cued my mind to go there... If you do a google search for "my husband won't initiate", 'sex' is by far the most common conclusion to that sentence.
No kidding. I guess she finds the Song of Solomon to be highly erotic.
