Cultural Ramifications of Mother's Employment

[Carrapicho]

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/66488/

Just had to say that I liked this one. Thank you to both the asker and the answerer.

[Katya]

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/66488/

Just had to say that I liked this one. Thank you to both the asker and the answerer.

Agreed. Nicely done.

[Whistler]

I liked the question too. It made me think of why sometimes couples just focus on the husband's career aspirations. I think asking if a woman works can be kind of an awkward question--I always want to preface it with something like "I know some women like having homemaking as their only job, and some don't, and I completely approve of you either way." Women who work might feel self-conscious about not spending all their time at home, and full-time homemakers might feel like they wish they worked.

It's a sensitive issue and I understand why some people choose to avoid it... but I've never regretted asking another women about if she works and what she enjoys doing in life.

[Katya]

I liked the question too. It made me think of why sometimes couples just focus on the husband's career aspirations. I think asking if a woman works can be kind of an awkward question--I always want to preface it with something like "I know some women like having homemaking as their only job, and some don't, and I completely approve of you either way." Women who work might feel self-conscious about not spending all their time at home, and full-time homemakers might feel like they wish they worked.

I agree that the awkwardness of how to frame the question is a big part of the issue. (Of course, when I was in college, I was so used to the campus small talk questions of "What's your major? Where are you from?" that I would blank on how to talk to people who weren't students.)

[Eirene]

When we first moved to our married ward, I had a few awkward experiences where I would ask a sister if she worked or went to school, and she would say, "No, I just stay at home with my daughter..." and I was worried that I was inadvertently offending people or implying that they should be working or in school, which is definitely not what I actually think. So now when I'm getting to know someone, I ask, "So what do you do when you're not [whatever activity I know them for—winning Harry Potter trivia contests, baking delicious treats for ward activities, playing with this adorable baby, putting together awesome outfits, etc]?" I've found it opens up the conversation to talking about whatever someone likes to discuss, whether that's work, school, families, or hobbies. And it also gives them a little compliment, which people generally like as well

[Dragon Lady]

I don't really mind when people define my family based on Yellow's work. But probably largely because our entire lifestyle is made possible because of his work. And it dominates any description you give of him. And while I have nothing to do with it, it's very much a part of why I am who I am right now. And really, there isn't much that really defines me. I'm not really god at anything. I'm more a jack-of-all-trades, master of none. And granted, I've never been put in the position of being ignored. And if I were in that position, I might resent it. I've mostly had the experience of people asking questions about me, and then about my husband.

Ok, actually, come to think of it, I was in a similar situation recently. We moved into our current ward, met the bishop, and he asked Yellow about his most recent callings and never asked about mine. And that kind of bugged me because I'm the one whose had major callings recently. I ended up dismissing it and not dwelling on it, though, for a few reasons. 1) My last two callings got brought up while discussing Yellow's, 2) being mad that my current bishop doesn't know my "big" callings seems really, really prideful, 3) discussing Yellow's took awhile and had a few tangents, so it's quite possible that he just forgot, 4) I was 7.5 months pregnant. Maybe he was asking Yellow in order to get a feel for what calling to give him, but wasn't planning on giving me one just now, based on my circumstances and 5) it's a REALLY big ward. Chances are he wouldn't remember 15 minutes after we left anyway.

So, yeah, I guess based on that experience, I can see how it could bother me. I guess I'm just used to being asked about myself as well.

Also, Mods, perhaps this should become its own thread?

[Katya]

I'm not really god at anything.

But you're a goddess at so many things! (Couldn't resist. )

[bobtheenchantedone]

I can tell you right now that I will not allow anyone to define me by my eventual husband, nor will I be feeling like I'm not using my talents when I'm taking care of my eventual family. Even if I'm no longer in business at that time (and I have every reason to think that I will be), I have worked too hard these past couple of years to gain individuality and pride in my talents to let them go again.

[Katya]

When we first moved to our married ward, I had a few awkward experiences where I would ask a sister if she worked or went to school, and she would say, "No, I just stay at home with my daughter..." and I was worried that I was inadvertently offending people or implying that they should be working or in school, which is definitely not what I actually think. So now when I'm getting to know someone, I ask, "So what do you do when you're not [whatever activity I know them for—winning Harry Potter trivia contests, baking delicious treats for ward activities, playing with this adorable baby, putting together awesome outfits, etc]?" I've found it opens up the conversation to talking about whatever someone likes to discuss, whether that's work, school, families, or hobbies. And it also gives them a little compliment, which people generally like as well

That's a nice way of phrasing the question. I may steal it.

[TheAnswerIs42]

You know, I have never had other people make me feel inferior for not having a job to talk about. I always end up talking about the job I used to have teaching math and how I do tutoring now, and that is enough. But I feel a bit let down every year when I write our little Christmas card blurb. I write a short one - just one sentence or two per person - but there is still nothing to say about me. I guess I just enable the other people in the family to do what they do, but that is a bit lame. Or it least it looks that way on paper. All I can ever say is that I still tutor and sew, etc.

[Katya]

You know, I have never had other people make me feel inferior for not having a job to talk about. I always end up talking about the job I used to have teaching math and how I do tutoring now, and that is enough. But I feel a bit let down every year when I write our little Christmas card blurb. I write a short one - just one sentence or two per person - but there is still nothing to say about me. I guess I just enable the other people in the family to do what they do, but that is a bit lame. Or it least it looks that way on paper. All I can ever say is that I still tutor and sew, etc.

If it's any consolation, I don't have anything Christmas card-worthy to say every year, and I do have a full-time job.

[Whistler]

WHAT are you ladies talking about? You do noteworthy things all the time, even if it is something like "sensitively countered a fallacious argument" or "sent karmic forces of good through the power of written word." And those are just the things I know about! Do you think your lives are boring to other people? I find your online company pleasant! And, I obviously need to turn in.

[Dragon Lady]

Nah. I'm not saying I don't do good things. Just that there isn't really anything that defines me like there is Yellow. That's partially why I went through 12 majors and ended with one I don't do anything about. Sometimes that bothers me. Not currently, though.

[Marduk]

WOMEN!

Am I right, fellas?

[Katya]

WHAT are you ladies talking about? You do noteworthy things all the time, even if it is something like "sensitively countered a fallacious argument" or "sent karmic forces of good through the power of written word." And those are just the things I know about! Do you think your lives are boring to other people? I find your online company pleasant! And, I obviously need to turn in.

Ha! Oh, I'm not saying that I don't think my activities are important or noteworthy (nor do I feel that way about DL or 42), just that my activities don't translate very well to the type of thing one puts in a Christmas card.

Also, I think it's generally worth noting that there's a difference between an individual person not wanting a lot of attention or being OK with other people being in the spotlight and all women or mothers having to take a back seat to their husbands' careers/education/callings/interests. I have no problem with individuals saying they don't mind being defined to some degree by what their husband does, but I do think it's a problem if all (Mormon) women are generally subsumed into their husbands' identities. (Aaaand then we were back to feminism. )

[NerdGirl]

My activities aren't very Christmas card-worthy. But I would argue that most adults don't do Christmas card-worthy things. Kids and puppies do Christmas card-worthy things. People don't want to see pictures of your new garage or the book you wrote. They want to see kids and puppies.

[TheAnswerIs42]

Maybe I just get jealous because my husband usually does things I can put on the Christmas card. He does a lot of large projects on our house, so I can include a picture of the new deck he built or whatever in the collage, and right now he is training for his first IronMan. As you say, the kids are even cuter to talk about and show pictures of.

But hey, I am creating a new human being from scratch. So there.

[mic0]

My activities aren't very Christmas card-worthy. But I would argue that most adults don't do Christmas card-worthy things. Kids and puppies do Christmas card-worthy things. People don't want to see pictures of your new garage or the book you wrote. They want to see kids and puppies.

And that is why my blog is mostly "Look at how cute my cat is! He does adorable things daily!" instead of, "I had a really hard test today and got a B+ which it pretty good considering how hard the class is."

[Genuine Article]

People don't want to see pictures of your new garage or the book you wrote. They want to see kids and puppies.

The only option, as I see it, is to dress up as either a baby or a puppy and use that for my Christmas card picture. People are sure to take notice then.