VL

[C is for]

Because we don't have enough topics about kissing in this forum right now

link to q

How big a deal was VL to you guys? (or how big a deal is it)

Why did all the writers go anon?

Mostly this topic reminds me of the time I was with my freshman sister and her freshman friends in a physics class and they were talking about whether they were VL or not and I kept thinking I was but then remembered I'd already had two serious boyfriends. Why did I forget that I'd been kissed? (Twice! Or, to be more accurate, dozens of times!)

[mic0]

You were SO over those guys it didn't even matter? Who knows. I remember being about 13 and my older (~23) cousin asked me if I was in the VL club and I had no idea what she was talking about and was super embarrassed about it. For the record, I'm pretty sure I *wasn't* in the VL club, but I wasn't about to tell her.

[Whistler]

I had my first kiss at 18 and I was kind of surprised that it was also my then-boyfriend's first too, since he was 25.

[Giovanni Schwartz]

Dude... C, Mico, Whistler... you just made yourselves sound like sluts. I mean, seriously. Kissing before marriage? I hoped you talked to your respective bishops about that.

[Whistler]

I know you're being sarcastic, but please don't joke around about women being sluts.

[UffishThought]

I remember thinking that the fact that I hadn't kissed anyone at 21 meant that I was undesirable and should be lucky to take whatever I got, if anyone ever decided they liked me. I knew I shouldn't think that, and that it probably wasn't true, but I still started to feel like damaged goods sitting on the shelf. Anyway, 5 boyfriends and quite a lot of kissing later, I have learned that yes, men have loved me before and will probably love me again. But I'm not really expecting "again" to be anytime in the near future.

Oh, also with the VL--I was also worried that it would be embarrassingly obvious that I was new at kissing, and I wouldn't know how to do it. Plus, it's always touted as this amazing experience, you know? The kiss at the end of the movie, the thing the girls giggle about at sleepovers, etc, and I knew there wouldn't ACTUALLY be angels singing, and I wanted to hurry up and kiss someone already so I wouldn't romanticize it too much. I looked and looked for it, because I know I answered a question way back when with something about how I wanted to get it over with, but I couldn't find it. Sorry.

I found a few others from that time period though, and though I talked a lot about how it didn't really bug me and I was just fine with myself and it would happen when it happened, the fact that those questions were asked and that I felt obligated to answer shows me that it really did affect how I viewed myself. Heck, I even designed one of my nyms, "songs of inexperience," around the fact that I hadn't dated or kissed anyone. As much as I wanted it not to affect me, being VL was really part of my identity for a good long while.

Anyway, it boils down to this: admitting you haven't kissed anyone also feels like admitting that 1) you're undesirable and 2) that you're a little kid hoping none of the adults will notice that you've snuck over to their table at Thanksgiving.

[TheAnswerIs42]

My husband and I were both so embarrassed about being VL when we started dating that we didn't admit it until weeks after our first kiss. He always cited a story where his first kiss was in first grade and let people assume he had kissed other girls since then, but in reality he went on first and second dates a lot but hadn't really gotten serious about anyone. And I . . . was a loser who never got asked out, so I changed the subject where possible because I was really embarrassed about being VL. The fact that I use the word loser probably shows that I feel, like Uffish points out, that being VL meant I was undesirable, etc. At least my husband felt like his status was his choice, but I just never got asked out and watched my ballet dancer/ former Miss Utah contestant roommate have a new, hot date anytime she wanted.

[Emiliana]

I remember thinking that the fact that I hadn't kissed anyone at 21 meant that I was undesirable and should be lucky to take whatever I got, if anyone ever decided they liked me. I knew I shouldn't think that, and that it probably wasn't true, but I still started to feel like damaged goods sitting on the shelf. Anyway, 5 boyfriends and quite a lot of kissing later, I have learned that yes, men have loved me before and will probably love me again. But I'm not really expecting "again" to be anytime in the near future.

Oh, also with the VL--I was also worried that it would be embarrassingly obvious that I was new at kissing, and I wouldn't know how to do it. Plus, it's always touted as this amazing experience, you know? The kiss at the end of the movie, the thing the girls giggle about at sleepovers, etc, and I knew there wouldn't ACTUALLY be angels singing, and I wanted to hurry up and kiss someone already so I wouldn't romantic

I found a few others from that time period though, and though I talked a lot about how it didn't really bug me and I was just fine with myself and it would happen when it happened, the fact that those questions were asked and that I felt obligated to answer shows me that it really did affect how I viewed myself. Heck, I even designed one of my nyms, "songs of inexperience," around the fact that I hadn't dated or kissed anyone. As much as I wanted it not to affect me, being VL was really part of my identity for a good long while.

Anyway, it boils down to this: admitting you haven't kissed anyone also feels like admitting that 1) you're undesirable and 2) that you're a little kid hoping none of the adults will notice that you've snuck over to their table at Thanksgiving.

Oh man, I feel like I could have written just about all of this.

The first time Marx tried to kiss me, I dodged. I was too embarrassed to tell him I'd never kissed anyone before -- I was TWENTY-FOUR, for cryin' out loud -- and I didn't want him to think I was a bad kisser. It was a couple of weeks after that before I told him, and then another couple more before I actually let him kiss me.

Like Uffish said, at the time the VL Club membership felt like a part of who I was, and not a part that I just absolutely loved. In retrospect it doesn't seem to matter much. The only reason I ever wish anything had been different is that sometimes I feel weird about the fact that Marx has had a lot more experience than I have. Like maybe it would be easier for me not to feel jealous about stuff that happened with his previous girlfriends if I'd had a more similar past. But other than that ... *shrug*

[Zedability]

I never really cared about being VL. I'd never been in a relationship until the end of high school, and then I refused to let him kiss me (it wasn't a GOOD relationship...), and I never wanted to kiss someone when it wouldn't mean anything to me. And I guess somehow all my angst about being undesirable never really got to the kissing thing because I was so inexperienced that kissing just seemed to far away to care about.

When M started dating me, our first kiss happened to fast and was too quick for me to be nervous, since I didn't know it was coming and I didn't have to do much, haha. But I was sooooooooo nervous the next time, more than enough to make up for it I'm pretty sure the only reason I didn't chicken out was the thought process that I wanted to kiss him, so there had to be a first time.

But even after that, I never really cared so much about the VL status changing. I've just never seen physical types of affections as milestones in and of themselves. They're a part of the person you're with, and that matters more to me than whether or not it actually happened.

But then, I've never been a particularly physical person. So it makes sense for me to think like that; kissing never seemed so inherently desirable on its own that way.

[Emiliana]

I never really cared about being VL. I'd never been in a relationship until the end of high school, and then I refused to let him kiss me (it wasn't a GOOD relationship...), and I never wanted to kiss someone when it wouldn't mean anything to me. And I guess somehow all my angst about being undesirable never really got to the kissing thing because I was so inexperienced that kissing just seemed to far away to care about.

There's also a bit of difference between VL at 18 (or whenever you started dating M) and VL into your 20s.

[Zedability]

I never really cared about being VL. I'd never been in a relationship until the end of high school, and then I refused to let him kiss me (it wasn't a GOOD relationship...), and I never wanted to kiss someone when it wouldn't mean anything to me. And I guess somehow all my angst about being undesirable never really got to the kissing thing because I was so inexperienced that kissing just seemed to far away to care about.

There's also a bit of difference between VL at 18 (or whenever you started dating M) and VL into your 20s.

Absolutely. It probably would have grown to bother me more, but still not as much as a lot of people, I think.

[yayfulness]

Frankly, I'm much more worried by the fact that I have never been on a second date than by the fact that I have never experienced an actual kiss. (And I don't particularly care to have the latter before the former, either.)

[Emiliana]

I never really cared about being VL. I'd never been in a relationship until the end of high school, and then I refused to let him kiss me (it wasn't a GOOD relationship...), and I never wanted to kiss someone when it wouldn't mean anything to me. And I guess somehow all my angst about being undesirable never really got to the kissing thing because I was so inexperienced that kissing just seemed to far away to care about.

There's also a bit of difference between VL at 18 (or whenever you started dating M) and VL into your 20s.

Absolutely. It probably would have grown to bother me more, but still not as much as a lot of people, I think.

Quite possibly. Also, I hope I didn't come across as condescending.

[Zedability]

There's also a bit of difference between VL at 18 (or whenever you started dating M) and VL into your 20s.

Absolutely. It probably would have grown to bother me more, but still not as much as a lot of people, I think.

Quite possibly. Also, I hope I didn't come across as condescending.

Maybe you did, but for (sarc) some reason I totally don't understand whatsoever(/sarc), people have a tendency to do that about my relationship, so I didn't notice.

[NerdGirl]

I didn't even hear the term "VL" until about my third year at BYU. And that ship sailed long before then.

[Marduk]

Frankly, I'm much more worried by the fact that I have never been on a second date than by the fact that I have never experienced an actual kiss. (And I don't particularly care to have the latter before the former, either.)

Hey I been there man! A trip down Marduk memory lane

[Portia]

Like a terrible '70s olive green shag rug or an analog television, I was proud to have it, and equally proud to get rid of it.

By my count I've now kissed 16 guys, which seems slightly alarming. The vast majority have been good kissers, though.

[bobtheenchantedone]

Frankly, I'm much more worried by the fact that I have never been on a second date than by the fact that I have never experienced an actual kiss. (And I don't particularly care to have the latter before the former, either.)

Hey I been there man! A trip down Marduk memory lane

Slightly off-topic, but it was interesting to read that not only because I've been dating you for more than two years now but because I was reading it in the room you helped me move into on the laptop you helped me purchase etc. etc. And also because I think you're a happier Marduk than you were then.

I did get teased some about lip locking, largely by friends from high school because my senior year I had a part in the musical that involved kissing. My friends were split: some teased me because the kissing had been on the lips and not all onstage (we had to practice) so that totally counted as my first kiss; others teased me because all of that kissing actually didn't count and I was getting kinda old to have never kissed a guy.

My second adventure in kissing/not kissing was with this guy. There are many interesting stories but I will spare you them since this thread is only about kissing. He decided to choose me as his last attempt to "fill the canteen" (I guess the nonstop cuddling with a dozen girls the day before was not enough, and none of the girls who had actually been one of his girlfriends wanted to perform the service, including the girl he bought a ring for "just so guys will stop asking her out if she doesn't want them to" he explained while he and I, supposedly on a date, wandered Wal-Mart in search of the perfect ring). I felt more trepidation about it than anything, so muttered something about not knowing how to kiss someone. He said he'd teach me. I fell asleep instead and woke up at about the time he had to start getting ready to get set apart, no time left, so I got out of there. I kinda regretted it for a couple of days, but after the hormones died down I was relieved I didn't have that hanging over me.

When I was finally for-reals kissed about a month before my 22nd birthday it was nice to finally have that arbitrary milestone taken care of, but I found that despite what I had thought it hadn't really mattered that much to me. What did matter was that I had finally gone on multiple dates with the same (awesome) guy and was heading toward a serious relationship.

/novel

[thatonemom]

I remember being pretty embarrassed about being VL, but mostly because I had my first kiss a little later than I felt like everyone else did. (I was 23. gasp!)
But, I think I was maybe subject to a few too many "scare tactic, boys are insatiable hormonal monsters" law of chastity lessons in my youth, and was sort of horribly afraid that kissing would automatically lead to doing something you'd have to talk to the bishop about. (Which I was also horribly afraid of.) So, yeah. Once I got over that I was 19-20 and it seemed like most everyone had already kissed at least one person by that point. So then I either changed the topic or lied about it when it came up.

[Imogen]

Kissing is awesome.


That is all.