Which power?

[mic0]

This question. Oh man, I think all of those powers would be great. And, while I would love to talk to animals - like I would love it SO MUCH - I have been watching some nature documentaries on Netflix lately and, well, animals are extremely violent. They have to be! And they really don't do much besides eat/sleep/reproduce.

[S.A.M.]

So there I was, having just released a djinni from a lamp. He granted me one wish. I asked for a bridge to hawaii, so that I could drive there and would not have to fly. He said, "Are you kidding me? Do you know how deep the supports would have to be for such a bridge? The structural strength of the bridge would have to be phenomenal to withstand typhoons, monster waves, etc. That's quite the extreme wish!" "Hmm, ok then," I replied. "How about you just grant me the power to understand women?" "The djinni quickly replied, "Would you like two lanes or four?"

[Whistler]

oh, I think I'd like the power to be able to say the right thing, although it is kind of stealth one. But think of the weird things you could use it for! Like counseling suicidal people, or winning at poker.

[Katya]

So there I was, having just released a djinni from a lamp. He granted me one wish. I asked for a bridge to hawaii, so that I could drive there and would not have to fly. He said, "Are you kidding me? Do you know how deep the supports would have to be for such a bridge? The structural strength of the bridge would have to be phenomenal to withstand typhoons, monster waves, etc. That's quite the extreme wish!" "Hmm, ok then," I replied. "How about you just grant me the power to understand women?" "The djinni quickly replied, "Would you like two lanes or four?"

I've heard this joke before, and here's why it bothers me: The joke relies on the premise that women are so hard to understand, it's easier to build a highway to Hawaii from the mainland. My rebuttal is: Women understand each other (at least, better than men understand us). If we were truly so illogical and bizarre and impossible to understand, we shouldn't be able to understand each other or predict each other's behavior, either, because there would be no logic to it. Instead, we understand each other's behavior or feelings in situations where men don't understand it, implying that there is a logic or rationale to it, just not one that men understand.

The reason men don't understand women is not just that men and women are socialized differently, but that male culture is privileged in our world, so that women have to understand how to navigate in a man's world and on male terms (to a certain extent, at least), but men don't have to do the reverse, so on the occasions when men have to move in a woman's world or navigate on female terms, they don't understand the culture. And instead of recognizing that and trying to learn about female culture, they get to reassert their privilege by claiming that women are illogical and impossible to understand.

[UffishThought]

Woo! Friggin' gaslighting.

[Katya]

Woo! Friggin' gaslighting.

My dear Uffish, don't you know that gaslighting is all in your head?

[UffishThought]

Oh . . . is it? Gosh, it's probably because I don't have a Y chromosome to help me make these difficult distinctions. It's getting harder and harder to tell what's just my own faulty thoughts and what is the real world. It's good to have a friend like you to straighten me out, so I don't burden the world with my foolishness.

On a more serious note, I've been noticing stuff like that more often, and it's bugging me. And then I wonder how much it really matters. Those jokes aren't really intended to offend, there are jokes like that about all kinds of people, and I doubt it convinces anyone who wasn't on board with that kind of sexism. But at the same time, jokes like that reinforce the stereotype, and they make the listeners feel like it's more culturally acceptable to put women down. I'm not sure where the balance is. I feel like I ought to give the stinkeye or the unimpressed stare or actually say I find sexist jokes offensive when I hear them, so as to make it clear that I DON'T feel like those sentiments are culturally acceptable. But I also feel like I ought not be a fault-finding pill who's making mountains out of molehills. Where do you guys stand? Do you struggle to find a balance, too?

Maybe I should just stockpile jokes that laugh at the opposite demographic. That way I could counter the stereotype with one just as ridiculous, and still make my point, and not be a sourpuss.

[S.A.M.]

Given media's stereotyping of fathers(men) as stupid, bumbling idiots, some could infer that the joke relies on the premise that men are so dense that a djinni would rather attempt to build a bridge to Hawaii than try to grant this wish. I would expect men to be able to find offense here just as easily as women. Djinn too, for promoting the stereotype of lamp dwelling, wish giving beings.

I apoligize to anyone who felt put down, demeaned, or slighted by relating this.

[mic0]

I have seriously never seen "genie" as "djinni." Is this just a more true-to-phonetics spelling?

[Whistler]

the other day my cousin made a joke about Mexicans and I told him to stop it, and just because he had joked around with his latino friends in high school about Mexicans didn't make it right to be racist. aaand I came off as a huge tightwad! :-/

[Portia]

Aaaaand to bring it back to the OP, I choose Food. I hate cooking, so that's be amazing and save tons of time. No interest in animals, and "saying the 'right' thing" would probably necessitate lying, and I value candor above all.

[blpsara]

Aaaaand to bring it back to the OP, I choose Food. I hate cooking, so that's be amazing and save tons of time. No interest in animals, and "saying the 'right' thing" would probably necessitate lying, and I value candor above all.

Portia, interesting. To me, the right thing would always be honest - you just would have the timing and ability to say it in the way it is meant/needed to be heard.

[Portia]

Aaaaand to bring it back to the OP, I choose Food. I hate cooking, so that's be amazing and save tons of time. No interest in animals, and "saying the 'right' thing" would probably necessitate lying, and I value candor above all.

Portia, interesting. To me, the right thing would always be honest - you just would have the timing and ability to say it in the way it is meant/needed to be heard.

I've found in my own life that the unvarnished truth is sometimes the last thing one needs to hear. Tact is a definite skill, and I think an important one to acquire.

[Katya]

Given media's stereotyping of fathers(men) as stupid, bumbling idiots, some could infer that the joke relies on the premise that men are so dense that a djinni would rather attempt to build a bridge to Hawaii than try to grant this wish.

Interesting. I would never have thought of that interpretation, although I agree with you regarding the "men are stupid" media stereotype.

[Katya]

On a more serious note, I've been noticing stuff like that more often, and it's bugging me. And then I wonder how much it really matters. Those jokes aren't really intended to offend, there are jokes like that about all kinds of people, and I doubt it convinces anyone who wasn't on board with that kind of sexism. But at the same time, jokes like that reinforce the stereotype, and they make the listeners feel like it's more culturally acceptable to put women down. I'm not sure where the balance is. I feel like I ought to give the stinkeye or the unimpressed stare or actually say I find sexist jokes offensive when I hear them, so as to make it clear that I DON'T feel like those sentiments are culturally acceptable. But I also feel like I ought not be a fault-finding pill who's making mountains out of molehills. Where do you guys stand? Do you struggle to find a balance, too?

I was thinking about this the other day, and I decided that my current philosophy is to adopt a "glass is 75% full" mentality regarding media (or jokes) that aren't too bad, in isolation, but nonetheless play into larger cultural stereotypes in a problematic way.

My example is Pixar films. I love Pixar films (especially the early ones), but I also think it's ridiculous that they made 12 feature-length films before they made one with a female lead. So, in isolation, I really like Pixar films, but in the larger context, they have serious issues. If I always bring up the fact that all of the early films are about men or that Toy Story fails the Bechdel, it's not going to be much fun to talk to me about the genuinely good things in Pixar films. At the same time, if no one ever talks about these problems, then they're not going to go away. (And Brave arguably only came about because people did start to notice this recurring issue.)

So, if it's a lighthearted discussion, I probably won't bring it up. If it's a more in-depth discussion or if it keeps coming up, I might bring it up in a larger context. And, of course, if it comes up in a framework or forum devoted to discussing such issues, then it's reasonable to focus only on those issues. (And I guess I count The Board Board as the latter, since I jumped into a critique of S.A.M.'s joke without any preamble. (Also note that I feel obliged to add in a winky emoticon so that I look nice and not too threatening or mean. You know, because I wouldn't want to be labeled a bitch or an ice queen just for standing up for myself. ))

[Katya]

Aaaaand to bring it back to the OP, I choose Food. I hate cooking, so that's be amazing and save tons of time. No interest in animals, and "saying the 'right' thing" would probably necessitate lying, and I value candor above all.

Portia, interesting. To me, the right thing would always be honest - you just would have the timing and ability to say it in the way it is meant/needed to be heard.

I've found in my own life that the unvarnished truth is sometimes the last thing one needs to hear. Tact is a definite skill, and I think an important one to acquire.

The thing about "unvarnished honesty" is that it says as much about the person speaking as it does about the person listening. I could walk up to a coworker and tell her that she's unattractive, and it might be true from my perspective, or even true based on the opinion of most members of our society, but it still says more about me and my values, opinions, and judgment than it does about her.

[Portia]

I need some kind of "I'm a Bitch/Ice Queen" tee shirt.

Thanks for the discussion, Katya & Uffish. I feel younger & more awkward on these issues, like it bugs me, but I play into the system, y'know?

[Portia]

Portia, interesting. To me, the right thing would always be honest - you just would have the timing and ability to say it in the way it is meant/needed to be heard.

I've found in my own life that the unvarnished truth is sometimes the last thing one needs to hear. Tact is a definite skill, and I think an important one to acquire.

The thing about "unvarnished honesty" is that it says as much about the person speaking as it does about the person listening. I could walk up to a coworker and tell her that she's unattractive, and it might be true from my perspective, or even true based on the opinion of most members of our society, but it still says more about me and my values, opinions, and judgment than it does about her.

Yeah. So saying the right thing in this case is clearing keeping your mouth shut. So would that count in the magical power? Knowing when to hold your tongue?

[Katya]

I need some kind of "I'm a Bitch/Ice Queen" tee shirt.

Thanks for the discussion, Katya & Uffish. I feel younger & more awkward on these issues, like it bugs me, but I play into the system, y'know?

It's just really tough to negotiate, because once you become aware of it, you start seeing it everywhere and then you have to figure out how to live your life without being angry and upset all the time, on the one hand, or sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending that everything is fine, on the other hand.

[Katya]

I've found in my own life that the unvarnished truth is sometimes the last thing one needs to hear. Tact is a definite skill, and I think an important one to acquire.

The thing about "unvarnished honesty" is that it says as much about the person speaking as it does about the person listening. I could walk up to a coworker and tell her that she's unattractive, and it might be true from my perspective, or even true based on the opinion of most members of our society, but it still says more about me and my values, opinions, and judgment than it does about her.

Yeah. So saying the right thing in this case is clearing keeping your mouth shut. So would that count in the magical power? Knowing when to hold your tongue?

I think it's the ability to see things in perspective and make your "honest" comments serve everyone's best interests in the long term. It sounds like a cliché, but I don't think that Jesus would walk up to anyone and tell her that she was unattractive. At the same time, He wasn't known for lying to people or for not telling them things that were difficult to hear. So what's the difference? What does He care about or see in her that I'm not seeing (and how can I learn to see the same things)?