SAHM

[Portia]

I don't want this to come across as an attack, but there's something I'm truly curious about in this question about SAHMs.

Our Board Board friend THM said,

then be a stay at home mom for the rest of my life.

Most people's kids have flown the coop by the time you hit your 40s or 50s. With extending lifespans, children more likely to move out of state, and smaller families, what do THM and others like her intend on doing for half their lives? Early retirement?

[Whistler]

Many of the "retired" women in my ward say they feel even busier now (it probably feels that way because they're not on as much of a schedule). If they're any indication, they spend a lot of time visiting their families/grandchildren and working on hobbies (like reading, quilting, writing, doing service, etc.). My mother-in-law volunteers with hospice patients and does taxes for seniors, which seems to keep her happily busy.

Right now I'm a homemaker/housewife without children, and I'm unemployed. That doesn't mean I'm bored--there's plenty of things to do even though I'm not employed. Because of some health issues, I'm not doing as much, but I usually work on hobbies (like memorizing kanji and practicing the organ), keeping the house clean, running errands like grocery shopping, and yeah, sometimes I sit around and play videogames.

Anyway, I know we've talked about how some people are into careers and others aren't. But just because you don't have a career doesn't mean you have no aspirations in life.

[Portia]

Many of the "retired" women in my ward say they feel even busier now (it probably feels that way because they're not on as much of a schedule). If they're any indication, they spend a lot of time visiting their families/grandchildren and working on hobbies (like reading, quilting, writing, doing service, etc.). My mother-in-law volunteers with hospice patients and does taxes for seniors, which seems to keep her happily busy.

Right now I'm a homemaker/housewife without children, and I'm unemployed. That doesn't mean I'm bored--there's plenty of things to do even though I'm not employed. Because of some health issues, I'm not doing as much, but I usually work on hobbies (like memorizing kanji and practicing the organ), keeping the house clean, running errands like grocery shopping, and yeah, sometimes I sit around and play videogames.

Anyway, I know we've talked about how some people are into careers and others aren't. But just because you don't have a career doesn't mean you have no aspirations in life.

Do all the women in this position have husbands with high incomes? Not working wasn't often an economically viable decision in my family/neighborhood, so I'm curious.

(My grandma retired after 53 years of full-time working. I think she's getting stir-crazy. We're not a very crafty bunch.)

[Whistler]

Well, they either saved up for retirement or their husband's jobs had nice retirement benefits (like, for example, if you work for the post office I hear they have nice retirement benefits), but yeah, it is possibly a class thing. I know one older couple where the man is retired, but he still works part-time in a retail position to augment their income.

[Portia]

Well, they either saved up for retirement or their husband's jobs had nice retirement benefits (like, for example, if you work for the post office I hear they have nice retirement benefits), but yeah, it is possibly a class thing. I know one older couple where the man is retired, but he still works part-time in a retail position to augment their income.

Do you think there is some classism in dating at BYU for this reason? I never really strongly considered "high income potential" in the guys I dated, although some exes have exceeded my expectations for a partner's compensation, ever, and some are barely scraping by, but most are just median earners. (Comfortable, but by no means well-off or able to support me.)

Intelligence was always more important to me than a major (and I don't think I'd make a good trophy wife for the Marriott School types ;-) ), but I guess if you want to maintain a certain "lifestyle," then it would be foolish to marry a plumber or schoolteacher or something more modest.

[Whistler]

I think schoolteachers get good retirement benefits too, but I see what you're saying. I think most people like to maintain or achieve the lifestyle they grew up with. I come from a middle-class background, and I feel fairly comfortable with other middle-class people. I wouldn't want to move into a really rich or really poor neighborhood, because I'm classist and think that it's more likely that I'll meet others with similar interests within my own economic class. I don't mind interacting with people from other economic classes, and I feel like I have and can learn a lot from them, but I find social interaction easier when I know what cultural assumptions I can make.

I'm not really proud of myself for this, in fact I find myself somewhat ashamed of it, but I find it explains my preferences consistently.

[Portia]

.Because of some health issues, I'm not doing as much, but I usually work on hobbies (like memorizing kanji and practicing the organ), keeping the house clean, running errands like grocery shopping, and yeah, sometimes I sit around and play videogames.

And regardless of your gender or career track, health issues suck! Hope you feel better soon. <3

[Portia]

I think schoolteachers get good retirement benefits too, but I see what you're saying. I think most people like to maintain or achieve the lifestyle they grew up with. I come from a middle-class background, and I feel fairly comfortable with other middle-class people. I wouldn't want to move into a really rich or really poor neighborhood, because I'm classist and think that it's more likely that I'll meet others with similar interests within my own economic class. I don't mind interacting with people from other economic classes, and I feel like I have and can learn a lot from them, but I find social interaction easier when I know what cultural assumptions I can make.

I'm not really proud of myself for this, in fact I find myself somewhat ashamed of it, but I find it explains my preferences consistently.

There's now an interactive map so you can spend your time with those from your own social and educational class! ;-)

I feel comfortable across class lines. I've usually lived in apartments in wealthy neighborhoods, and have had friends across the class and educational spectrum. I don't want my kids, should I have them, to grow up in a McMansion bubble, so I'd want to live somewhere urban. (And my boyfriend is obsessed with urban planning and the walkability of neighborhoods, so I think we see eye-to-eye here.) I don't expect everyone to share my values on that, but I don't think that those who choose older, more established neighborhoods and/or smaller homes are necessarily poor or uneducated.

I think living within your means is the important value, whether you're a plumber, account executive, or oil heiress.

[Dragon Lady]

Anyway, I know we've talked about how some people are into careers and others aren't. But just because you don't have a career doesn't mean you have no aspirations in life.

I love this, Whistler. My feelings exactly.

When I have no kids at home, I want to work at a garden nursery. I'm torn. I don't want to do it for the money. So then the question is if I volunteer or not. I want to do it to learn more about plants. It seems an excellent, hands-on way to do it. But if I do it as a job, I plan on using my paycheck first to make my yard the most beautiful ever. Then I'll become a plant philanthropist. "Oh, so and so said she loves weeping cherry trees. She'll sure be surprised to find one on her doorstep tomorrow." Or "so and so are struggling and can't afford to make their yard look nice. They'll sure be surprised when they come home from their weekend vacation to find low-water friendly plants in their flowerbeds." I'm leaning towards the second, because being a secret philanthropist is one of my goals in life.

My mother worked while I was at home. First she did Tupperware parties, so she could be gone while my dad was home. Then she worked as a secretary at an LDS seminary, so she was mostly only gone during school hours. Since we've all moved out and she's retired, she fills her life with a Family History mission, a giant garden, cub scouts and just... life. I thought once my parents retired I could get them to come visit me more often, and maybe during the week sometimes instead of just weekends. But it's actually turned out to be harder. I swear they're even busier now that they don't have set work hours.

My mother-in-law is currently a SAHM. But her youngest daughter is a senior and her life is full of friends and dating and school and she can drive herself. So in many ways my mil is basically a "retired SAHM". We lived with her a couple of years ago. I honestly have no idea how she spent all of her time, but I can tell you, she is the farthest person from lazy that I've ever, ever met. She is always on the go. She's in the stake RS. She visit teaches something like 6-7 ladies. She helps an elderly neighbor fill her weekly pill box every week. She takes care of her aging parents (her dad just died recently) that live close and her mother-in-law, who lives with them almost half of the year. She is constantly out giving service anywhere needed. She exercises for about an hour every morning. She is taking the continuing education courses at BYU to finish her degree, but only has time for one class at a time. She cooks real meals pretty much every day. She still takes care of her grown up kids in whatever ways they need.

[Dragon Lady]

Also, one question, Portia. You ask about economic stations here. Do you mean for SAHMs in general? Or for women who have no plans to work after kids leave the house? Because if it's the latter, my answer would be, "If they could afford it with kids, it'll be 10 times easier without kids."

[Violet]

Do you think there is some classism in dating at BYU for this reason? I never really strongly considered "high income potential" in the guys I dated, although some exes have exceeded my expectations for a partner's compensation, ever, and some are barely scraping by, but most are just median earners. (Comfortable, but by no means well-off or able to support me.)

Intelligence was always more important to me than a major (and I don't think I'd make a good trophy wife for the Marriott School types ), but I guess if you want to maintain a certain "lifestyle," then it would be foolish to marry a plumber or schoolteacher or something more modest.

Most definitely. I know some girls who actively look to date engineers because of their earning potential. I know a couple who got married because she felt he would be a successful businessman and support their future family well and he felt she would be the perfect stay at home mom (that one ended in divorce, not surprisingly).

Coming from the male perspective, I definitely have less stories to share, but I've noticed that the guys who've had comfortable "lifestyle" upbringings and expect to be successful themselves, tend to date and marry stereotypically pretty girls. For example, one of my mom's sisters has stunning daughters. From the time they were 16, they all dated these types of guys and then married them. The guys whose families would give the girls ipods for Christmas when their sons were on missions. The ones whose families hosted elaborate dinners in fancy restaurants for everyone invited to the wedding. Things like that. I don't want to say they became trophy wives because some of them are wildly successful in their own right, but it seems like the boys want to be seen with them.

Anyway, I think some people do better with the "retired SAHM" thing than others, and sometimes, I think it's just timing. I had an aunt who had all of her kids in school who shopped all day until she had another child, but once that child was in school, she had things she was doing all the time.

[Portia]

Do you think there is some classism in dating at BYU for this reason? I never really strongly considered "high income potential" in the guys I dated, although some exes have exceeded my expectations for a partner's compensation, ever, and some are barely scraping by, but most are just median earners. (Comfortable, but by no means well-off or able to support me.)

Intelligence was always more important to me than a major (and I don't think I'd make a good trophy wife for the Marriott School types ;-) ), but I guess if you want to maintain a certain "lifestyle," then it would be foolish to marry a plumber or schoolteacher or something more modest.

Most definitely. I know some girls who actively look to date engineers because of their earning potential. I know a couple who got married because she felt he would be a successful businessman and support their future family well and he felt she would be the perfect stay at home mom (that one ended in divorce, not surprisingly).

Coming from the male perspective, I definitely have less stories to share, but I've noticed that the guys who've had comfortable "lifestyle" upbringings and expect to be successful themselves, tend to date and marry stereotypically pretty girls. For example, one of my mom's sisters has stunning daughters. From the time they were 16, they all dated these types of guys and then married them. The guys whose families would give the girls ipods for Christmas when their sons were on missions. The ones whose families hosted elaborate dinners in fancy restaurants for everyone invited to the wedding. Things like that. I don't want to say they became trophy wives because some of them are wildly successful in their own right, but it seems like the boys want to be seen with them.

Anyway, I think some people do better with the "retired SAHM" thing than others, and sometimes, I think it's just timing. I had an aunt who had all of her kids in school who shopped all day until she had another child, but once that child was in school, she had things she was doing all the time.

The engineers I know work like maniacs and aren't interested in tying themselves down with a little lady. They'd never be home, anyway.

That's hilarious about the iPods for the girlfriend. Arm candy is indeed one of the ways the rich are different from you and me.

[Whistler]

somewhat related: old ladies dress up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4znrNtLKDE4

[Genuine Article]

After raising eight kids my parents should be empty nesters now that my youngest sister is twenty, but my mom keeps taking in strays. She always has one or two Asian exchange students, plus random family members who need a place to stay. Last weekend it was my parents, their exchange student, my cousin who's getting a divorce, my sister's three kids (ages 6, 4, and 2), and me and B.A.B.Y. on our way to TN. My mom is just always taking care of people, even though she has two jobs in addition to the exchange student gig. She can't stop!