26 year old comparing herself to 20 year olds

[Portia]

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/76595/

I found this so depressing on so many levels. :-|

First, that she would compare herself with 20-year-olds. Second, that she has serious body image issues and I can't imagine that being healthy for pregnancy. Third, the alleged "brilliant"-ness of Provo girls ... I don't think they're any smarter, and often a lot less worldwise, than any other college sophomores. Most upsetting to me was the offhand "he's faithful no doubt" statement. If I were her husband I'd be sad that she didn't trust me.

[Whistler]

I think I can relate to her a little bit. I felt, and still feel, a little bit alienated or disconnected from my pregnant body. I've gotten more used to it, but for some reason being pregnant gives everyone around you the license to comment on how your body looks (in my case, many people say I'm "so small" or something, and I reassure them that I am, in fact, pregnant, why would I lie about that.). It's also a big body change that happens in a short-ish time. It helps me to wear maternity clothes for some reason, but they're expensive and I know many women do without a maternity wardrobe.

Add in the weird hormones of pregnancy and it's easy to get upset about stupid things (in my experience).

[Portia]

I think I can relate to her a little bit. I felt, and still feel, a little bit alienated or disconnected from my pregnant body. I've gotten more used to it, but for some reason being pregnant gives everyone around you the license to comment on how your body looks (in my case, many people say I'm "so small" or something, and I reassure them that I am, in fact, pregnant, why would I lie about that.). It's also a big body change that happens in a short-ish time. It helps me to wear maternity clothes for some reason, but they're expensive and I know many women do without a maternity wardrobe.

Add in the weird hormones of pregnancy and it's easy to get upset about stupid things (in my experience).

Makes sense. Do you compare yourself to college sophomores, though?

[Whistler]

haha, no, but I don't live around college sophomores.

[Portia]

haha, no, but I don't live around college sophomores.

I lived in college towns all of 2013, and I mostly compared myself favorably. I don't wear stupid cutoff jeans, I don't talk like a ditz, and I like to think I'm charming. >:-)

You seriously COULD NOT PAY ME to be 20 again, even though I suppose I weighed 10 pounds less. Worst year ever ever ever.

[UffishThought]

don't think she's saying that her husband doesn't trust her. She's just saying that their difference puts her and her husband in a situation where 20-year old women are the norm, which makes her the odd woman out, which makes her feel self-conscious. I think it's fairly natural, though obviously not ideal, for women (married or otherwise) to worry they're not stacking up against women who are younger or prettier or smarter or whatever. And though BYU isn't the necessarily filled with the best of the best intellectually, the GPA requirements are fairly high, and many of the people who go there ARE quite intelligent. I think you're letting your anti-BYU bias show, and forgetting that many good people have come out of the school. And as for the unhealthiness of body issues while pregnant--I think many, many women are uncomfortable with their bodies while pregnant. Pregnancy probably exacerbates body issues.

Personally, now that I'm 28, I look at 20-year old women and usually am just glad I'm not one of them anymore. I don't know if she'll hit that in 2 years or not. My hope would be that as she and her husband get more comfortable with each other, she'll learn more about what he really values about her, and she'll stop worrying so much about her appearance for his sake. And she'll start to see that the added maturity and experience of her own age group is a plus, not a minus. Plus, having a child might give her more in common with other women who have had children, whose bodies are no longer perfect and yet are still admirable. And even if they stay in Provo, maybe they'll move away from the young campus bubble, and put them in contact with couples more their own speed. Also I think that as people get older, a few years age difference becomes less of an issue, and hopefully she'll stop feeling like their age is such a barrier.

The thing that's oddest to me in her question is that she wants her naivety back. What does she know now that she wishes she didn't?

[Portia]

don't think she's saying that her husband doesn't trust her. She's just saying that their difference puts her and her husband in a situation where 20-year old women are the norm, which makes her the odd woman out, which makes her feel self-conscious. I think it's fairly natural, though obviously not ideal, for women (married or otherwise) to worry they're not stacking up against women who are younger or prettier or smarter or whatever. And though BYU isn't the necessarily filled with the best of the best intellectually, the GPA requirements are fairly high, and many of the people who go there ARE quite intelligent. I think you're letting your anti-BYU bias show, and forgetting that many good people have come out of the school. And as for the unhealthiness of body issues while pregnant--I think many, many women are uncomfortable with their bodies while pregnant. Pregnancy probably exacerbates body issues.

Personally, now that I'm 28, I look at 20-year old women and usually am just glad I'm not one of them anymore. I don't know if she'll hit that in 2 years or not. My hope would be that as she and her husband get more comfortable with each other, she'll learn more about what he really values about her, and she'll stop worrying so much about her appearance for his sake. And she'll start to see that the added maturity and experience of her own age group is a plus, not a minus. Plus, having a child might give her more in common with other women who have had children, whose bodies are no longer perfect and yet are still admirable. And even if they stay in Provo, maybe they'll move away from the young campus bubble, and put them in contact with couples more their own speed. Also I think that as people get older, a few years age difference becomes less of an issue, and hopefully she'll stop feeling like their age is such a barrier.

The thing that's oddest to me in her question is that she wants her naivety back. What does she know now that she wishes she didn't?

I don't consider myself anti-BYU. But I certainly hope that the average woman in her late twenties has learned more in life experience than a typical 19- or 20-year-old. (I was thinking primarily of the undergrads at UW-Madison. Most my classmates at BYU last year were my age: mid-twenties.) I'm sure there are plenty that are, to user her word, "brilliant." But many who aren't. I just don't see how this would be more demoralizing than living in, say, New York City or San Francisco, where there are many, many, many fashionable, accomplished, and thin women in their twenties and thirties. That's where I would feel somewhat outclassed, though not jealous -- I'm not a jealous person.

I think she thinks her husband trusts her. I don't think she trusts him. My boyfriend (although we're not super serious or anything; we're not engaged) lives in Provo. And I don't think he's going to cheat, even if there are opportunities. There are opportunities anywhere. I just can't imagine the kind of guy that would cheat on his pregnant wife. I think most LDS guys are ... nicer than that?

This may be a Utah County culture thing. But none of the guys I've flirted with/dated have been interested in very young women after the age of 22. I do think there is pressure in Provo to have a certain "look." But many women who are around 40 still have that look going -- manicures, bleached hair, Shabby Apple dresses. Not my thing, but if they want to rock it, go ahead.

[Portia]

My hope would be that as she and her husband get more comfortable with each other, she'll learn more about what he really values about her, and she'll stop worrying so much about her appearance for his sake. And she'll start to see that the added maturity and experience of her own age group is a plus, not a minus.

Yeah, I'd hope so too. Do you think this is common, or more specific to Provo or Mormon culture? We get so many questions on the Board from women with pretty severe body image issues, and it's just pretty foreign to me. Intellectually, I can sort of understand having a younger husband and being like, dang, you're so young, but emotionally, if I had managed to get him to marry me, my reaction would be like, "still got it!" But I don't place a super high value on my appearance ... I've never felt that my sex appeal, if you want to call it that, was primarily about my looks (which are good but not an outlier by any means).

Maybe the short dating and engagement periods, coupled with the tradition towards abstinence, makes people feel insecure even after being married? I've dated gorgeous men, average men, and out-of-shape men, and I don't feel like this was a problem after a year of dating. It reminds me more of the insecurities that arise in the very early stages. Does that make sense?

[No Dice]

Maybe the short dating and engagement periods, coupled with the tradition towards abstinence, makes people feel insecure even after being married?

Because only Mormon pregnant women wish they had their pre-pregnancy bodies? Come on. This is trying way too hard to take a very normal pregnancy outlook and turn it into a critique of Mormon culture.

[Portia]

Maybe the short dating and engagement periods, coupled with the tradition towards abstinence, makes people feel insecure even after being married?

Because only Mormon pregnant women wish they had their pre-pregnancy bodies? Come on. This is trying way too hard to take a very normal pregnancy outlook and turn it into a critique of Mormon culture.

I don't think that many pregnant non-Mormon women are frequently surrounded by 20-year-olds, to be fair. If you delay pregnancy, you may have a more realistic viewpoint of your body changes. (On the other hand, you may feel more pressure to get your body "back." I'm not sure.)

Until I stop reading stuff like "I keep my appearance up and my weight down" in that NYTimes article on sister missionaries, and Tad Callister's admonition that women have a unique onus to dress a certain way (still sexy, though), I won't refrain from critiquing where critiquing is due.

It's an indisputable fact that if you don't have sex with someone before you're married, you'll be less comfortable with them in a state of undress compared to someone who has seen their boyfriend or girlfriend naked. I don't think that body insecurities are unique to Mormon people, but it is outside the norm to have such a small window of someone seeing your body (wedding night to being pregnant, often but not always shortly thereafter).

And "he's faithful no doubt" still seems like a backhanded compliment to me.

[Portia]

A qualitative comparative case study design was utilized to explore how 10 lifelong, middle-aged LDS women, either married (n =5) with children or single, never married (n =5), experienced body image through their perceptions of religiosity and spirituality. The participants lived along the Wasatch Front in Utah and were recruited through known LDS gatekeepers. Each participant completed three in-person interviews and three audio or paper journals, which were transcribed and analyzed for themes. The main themes included the influence of the birth and/or marriage family, the constant comparison between three theoretical ideals and reality, choice vs. chosen relating to marital status, and spirituality. Fathers and brothers were especially important in teaching an acceptable body appearance, while mothers tended to teach verbal and physical behaviors associated with body appearance. The spouses of four participants were positive influences of body image but one participant experienced profound negative influences. For all ten participants, marital status was both an act of choosing to be in a particular marriage status and being chosen, or not, by a spouse. The majority of the single participants struggled with not being chosen for marriage and did not have a moderating influence of a spouse, like the married participants, for their body image. Both groups expressed more happiness when they chose to be in their marital status group instead of relying on a spouse to choose them. The participants constantly compared their perceived reality to three theoretical ideals: God's teachings, the LDS Church's organization and culture, and the influence of the world. Spiritually or a connection to God was a positive influence and moderating factor for body image perception for each participant.

Body image in middle-aged Mormon women: A comparative case study

If anyone has access to the full text of this, I'd be interested. I definitely don't think culture and religion are irrelevant when it comes to body image. And my initial reading of this is that married LDS women (older ones, at least) rely on their husbands as a sort of "mirror" to their own body (for most, a positive one). So if the younger woman's husband is either disapproving or not verbally approving, I could see how this could harm her self-image.

My anecdotal evidence is that the LDS women I know desire children so strongly that they are more comfortable with their pregnant bodies, on average, than non-Mormons. They idealize the process to a greater degree than the non-Mormon women I know. I hardly think this is universally true, though I think it is a trend.

[Portia]

Being pregnant has strengthened my testimony of my Heavenly Father in ways that I never knew possible. Reading about everything my body and my baby's body are going through has truly opened my eyes to the beautiful intricacy, the exquisite detailing our Father in Heaven has developed to create our physical bodies. I have a hard time dwelling negatively on my size when I'm wrapped up in awe and gratitude for my mini-miracle and my body's ability to accommodate, nurture, and protect the precious life inside me. - See more at: http://byuwsr.blogspot.com/2012/10/preg ... S5mCd.dpuf

I think this is a uniquely "Mormon" take on body image in pregnancy. (And a positive one, I'd argue.)

[No Dice]

I don't think that many pregnant non-Mormon women are frequently surrounded by 20-year-olds, to be fair.

Then the problem has little to do with short engagements and abstinence and lots to do with living in a college town.

"I have a hard time dwelling negatively on my size when I'm wrapped up in awe and gratitude for my mini-miracle and my body's ability to accommodate, nurture, and protect the precious life inside me." - See more at: http://byuwsr.blogspot.com/2012/10/preg ... S5mCd.dpuf

I think this is a uniquely "Mormon" take on body image in pregnancy. (And a positive one, I'd argue.)

See, and that actually strikes me as preachy—i.e., the implication might be that women who DO dwell negatively on their size just don't get God and aren't grateful for the miracle of the little life inside them. Women experience pregnancy in lots and lots of different ways, and I'm pretty wary of non-pregnant people telling pregnant people how to feel about their pregnant bodies.

[Portia]

I don't think that many pregnant non-Mormon women are frequently surrounded by 20-year-olds, to be fair.

Then the problem has little to do with short engagements and abstinence and lots to do with living in a college town.

I think it could be both. But I was not married, not pregnant, and lived in a non-Utah college town, and mostly was just put off by their dress, behavior, and silliness (male and female). My friends were the grad students and young professionals, who dressed, acted, and even drank differently. (Hint: better, more mature, and less.)

Now that I'm back in Utah, I had what amounted to a nervous breakdown over my unmarried state, and I'm not a believing Mormon, conservative, or even particularly pressured by family or friends. Having every other person in my department be married (9/12, with the addition of my best friend since), in a serious cohabiting relationship (1/12) or way young (1/12) definitely made me feel like the odd woman out. Add to that many of my friends having these Instagram-perfect weddings lately and my dad getting remarried when I thought it very likely I'd get engaged, and yeah, I pretty much was really depressed. It's not that I don't sympathize with "Mommy," it's that I think comparing yourself to others (single co-eds in her case, married professionals in mine) just isn't that advantageous. I think that that's an advantage of growing up and maturing ... I hope!

... Anne, at seven-and-twenty, thought very differently from what she had been made to think at nineteen.

Me, too.

I can't find good conclusive research on body image/sexual communication for the abstinent-only groups and everyone else. I have my own opinions, but I do know that women aren't exactly encouraged to embrace their own sexuality in conservative cultures. And feeling good about yourself sexually helps you feel good, period.

See, and that actually strikes me as preachy—i.e., the implication might be that women who DO dwell negatively on their size just don't get God and aren't grateful for the miracle of the little life inside them. Women experience pregnancy in lots and lots of different ways, and I'm pretty wary of non-pregnant people telling pregnant people how to feel about their pregnant bodies.

While I think this is a good rule, I re-read the question to see if I was way off-base. And what bugs me is the ruminating and dwelling on "woulda, coulda, shoulda."

I would give anything to turn back the clock 6 years ... as well as some naivety.

Perhaps she is engaging in hyperbole, but as someone who is her same age, if wishes were horses, you know? Although I may be confident enough in my body image, I certainly wasted a lot of time wishing I had a do-over in school, in relationships, in the dead mother problem. The only thing that has helped me is just moving on! Her being surrounded by young girls reminds me of myself being surrounded by fabulously wealthy people all growing up. Being jealous doesn't affect them!

I'm with Uffish in not seeing how being naive is better.