What girls find attractive in guys (53162)

[NerdGirl]

This guy is gross.
This guy is gross.

If a man doesn't look like either of those two guys, can leave the house without the aid of a forklift, and doesn't smell bad (and that includes way too much cologne as well as BO), then I find them acceptably physically attractive. Also, physical attractiveness is kind of like the work function in the photoelectric effect - as long as a guy is above the threshold I just described, it really makes no difference how far above it he is. If he meets those minimum criteria, then I am interested in learning about his other qualities, which are much more important.

I have a guy friend who seriously thinks that girls don't like him because he has a big nose. I tell him that first of all, he doesn't have a big nose, and second of all, girls don't even care what his nose looks like. Guys need to stop worrying about what they look like and just ask girls out!

A date should be an opportunity to get to know someone without the distraction of a huge group of potentially annoying other people butting in. It's not a huge commitment, and people shouldn't worry that they're giving someone the wrong idea by saying yes to one date! If a guy doesn't present himself to me as some kind of total freak (like the 50+ old man who hit on me in a knitting store once and was looking at my chest instead of my eyes), then I will most likely say yes to one date with him. I think that going on a date is the only way to know if you are interested in going on dates with someone, as paradoxical as that might sound. So if the guy who asked the question is reading this: Don't be scared and just ask girls out! And it would also be nice if guys would ask out girls who aren't skinny and perfect looking once in a while. Like I said, the only way to know if you want to date someone is to date them, and you might be surprised once you get to know some girls who are a little bit on the chubby side or who are not all that "cute". I think girls like us (I would definitely put myself in that category) are also more likely to give you a chance after years of being ignored by most of the male population.

/rant

Any other thoughts?

[Cuddlefish]

I think that as long as you're healthy-looking, not desparate-seeming, and not a complete idiot or bore, you have a good chance of getting someone to go out with you. At the same time, please remember the 2 point rule, as given to me by my brother: If she's an 8, she'll date as low as a 6, but no lower. She'll also date as high as 10, but guys tend to go for girls who are equally or more attractive then themselves. If you're asking out girls who look like Megan Foxx and you look like you only leave your World of Warcraft game to use the toilet and make mac and cheese, you may wish to set your sights lower or improve your attractiveness.

(I don't think the guy who asked the question had that issue, though. I'm pretty sure he's just got caught in a loop of rejection and confidence issues.)

[C is for]

Something that I noticed about myself in the last year or so is that when I first meet someone I make a thought about their appearance -- guy or girl. When the crop of new kids hits the ward I look around and see who the hot ones are (though I only care about the hot guys). It doesn't really matter what my type is -- I agree with NerdGirl's pictures, though. I shuddered.

The point is, once I'm used to people, and associate them with more than just "Oh, there's C___ that hot guy" (or that overweight guy, or that tall guy, etc) I stop paying attention to their appearance at all. They're C____, that nice guy, or that good dancer, or the guy in my Chemistry class. And if I get to know someone well enough, I can stop adding epithets. They're just C____.

[Methinks "werf" would've been appropriately applied in the above paragraph...somewhere.]

Anyway. My advice to Marduk would be to get to know and become friends with girls...which he probably is. The way my last boyfriend got me was by using the Mold approach -- he had to grow on me. He wasn't immediately attractive, but we spent enough time together that I forgot his appearance. Sometimes asking a girl on a date is a good thing, but sometimes girls are stupid and hanging out is necessary to get them used to the idea of who you are besides your appearance.

If that makes sense at all.

(Oh, and also be diverse in who you ask on a date, like NerdGirl said.)

[bobtheenchantedone]

There was a guy that I was attracted to for years (and still kinda am), and he is not really good-looking. Tall, skinny, big ears, kinda funny face... but something about him just makes me want to know him better. I first met him in middle school, and I still get wistful when I think about how we never even really became friends.

I've read some stuff that says attraction is decided in the first few seconds, and nothing can shake that. Not so! I also say, become friends with people! And sometimes ask out that really good-looking person in your whatever class that you just noticed today.

[Laser Jock]

Also, physical attractiveness is kind of like the work function in the photoelectric effect - as long as a guy is above the threshold I just described, it really makes no difference how far above it he is.

Wow. Using the photoelectric effect to explain dating and attraction? This made me smile.

[NerdGirl]

This guy is gross.

I should also add that I don't think Robert Pattinson (is that his name?) is usually gross-looking. Only when he's dressed up as the vampire boy. Otherwise he looks perfectly fine. Oh, and the second guy was Jesse from Big Brother, in case anyone was wondering. I worry sometimes that some of my older single guy friends think that they are still single because they don't look like freakish body builders or the vampire boy, and I have a hard time convincing them otherwise.

[Portia]

Physical: blue eyes, good haircut, great smile (even, white teeth), some scruff, normal body weight, average to tall height, good kisser . . .

Not-as-physical: musical, critical thinker, doesn't freak out if you're reading a book about World War I on the bus for fun, but happens to be reading something similarly erudite himself, good taste in music, handyman, gainfully employed/studying, sensitive without being over-the-top . . .

Have to say, I'm a sucker for the face. I'd rather have a guy with a gorgeous face and a "meh" body than vice versa. But yeah, of course you can fall in love with just about anyone . . . it's like in (500) Days of Summer (told you I was obsessed with that movie!), Paul describes his "dream girl," but says that his girlfriend is better, because she's real. I think that would actually be my #1 criteria . . . a guy who is authentic, and not a fake, self-centered tool.

[Portia]

Oh, and to the guy in the question, who doesn't consider himself to have an attractive face . . . it's not just about makeup! These would be my suggestions to the questioner:

-get a haircut! too many guys let their hair get "blah" . . . it will cost what, 15 bucks? And buy some shampoo that's actually suited to your hair type (curly, coarse, etc.) instead of the cheapest thing on the shelf
-if you have acne, or oily skin, they have medications for that. Don't pick at any zits, whatever you do, and at least take comfort that it usually goes away once you hit your twenties.
-if you have a unibrow, take care of it, please, for the love.
-braces, retainers, and teeth whiteners were invented for a reason
-brush your teeth and keep mints on hand!

Any guy who judiciously followed these rules could go up at least 2 points on the attractiveness scale, a WoWer in his mom's basement though he may be. Hygiene: it's not just for girls anymore! ;)

[Marduk]

Well, thanks for your responses guys. I will be honest, I'm still struggling with it. It doesn't help that I hate dating to begin with, but your responses have been helpful, if for nothing else than a "chin up, keep trying". Perhaps I need to find some sort of alternative.

I suppose my main frustration (other than the one I've already been over) is that it seems impossible to find individuals who are genuine, kind, and open minded, who still have strong LDS values. It seems the open minded girls I find, at least those that consider themselves so, are not so open minded to those who choose to have religious and moral values, and those who have belief in and support the church, it seems tend to be intolerant of those who choose otherwise. Am I forced to choose one or the other? What do you guys think?

[NerdGirl]

I suppose my main frustration (other than the one I've already been over) is that it seems impossible to find individuals who are genuine, kind, and open minded, who still have strong LDS values. It seems the open minded girls I find, at least those that consider themselves so, are not so open minded to those who choose to have religious and moral values, and those who have belief in and support the church, it seems tend to be intolerant of those who choose otherwise. Am I forced to choose one or the other? What do you guys think?

I don't think you have to choose one or the other if both of those things are very important to you. Both of those things are very important to me. Having strong LDS values is slightly more important to me than being tolerant of those who don't, but I couldn't marry someone who was intolerant of people who choose different lifestyles. There are several reasons for that. For one thing, I don't think God sent us to earth at this particular time in history so that we could only hang out with good little Mormons and cut ourselves off from the rest of the world. We're here at least in part to be an example to others so that they will see the joy that the gospel can bring to people's lives, and if we're going to do that, then we're going to have to make friends with people who have very different values than we do. We don't have to lower our standards or approve of what they do, but we do have to be tolerant and loving if we're going to be friends with someone. Being friends implies a relationship where the two parties are equal, not where one party goes around expressing their feelings of moral superiority over the other party.

Another thing is what if I end up having a child who leaves the church for some reason? It happens to the best of us - even to prophets. Even to our Heavenly Father, and He's a perfect parent! And if that happens to me, I want to have the sort of attitude towards that child that God has towards us when we turn our backs on the gospel. I would not want a husband who would feel the need to cut that child out of our lives.

I realize I'm kind of going off on a tangent here, and this what I mean when I talk about intolerant people, and you might mean something different, but I think the idea is the same. You shouldn't have to marry someone who doesn't share all of your important values. The good news is that I think the concentration of tolerant people increases as people get older and realize that the world maybe isn't quite as black and white as they had always thought, and that you can love someone even if they have very different beliefs than you. So I think it's possible to find people like that.

As an interesting side note that's semi-relevant to this discussion, I really liked the fact that Pres. Uchtdorf in his fireside last Sunday acknowledged the fact that some men may never have the opportunity to marry in this life. I think there's an attitude in the church that if a woman stays single, it's not her fault, but if a man stays single, it's entirely his fault and he's lost his chance for eternal happiness. Now, I'm not bringing that up to say that I think you won't ever get married! You sound like a really decent guy and I think you'll eventually find girls who realize that. I would date you if I didn't probably live thousands of miles away from you! But my point is that guys shouldn't have to feel like marriage is entirely their responsibility and that if they aren't married by x age they're doing something wrong and that they need to compromise their standards in order to get married. It's perfectly fine for you to wait until you find a girl who shares the values that are important to you.

[Whistler]

it seems impossible to find individuals who are genuine, kind, and open minded, who still have strong LDS values. It seems the open minded girls I find, at least those that consider themselves so, are not so open minded to those who choose to have religious and moral values, and those who have belief in and support the church, it seems tend to be intolerant of those who choose otherwise. Am I forced to choose one or the other? What do you guys think?

Define "tolerant." I'll be friends with nonmembers who only share some of my values, but I won't seriously date a nonmember, because I want to marry an LDS man. Some people might define that as intolerant, and if you're one of them, then yes, it might be difficult to find a "tolerant" LDS girl. Is that what you were getting at?

[Marduk]

Not at all. I'll give you an example. My mother is a convert to the church. My grandmother, a member, was baptized after the death of her first husband, and has since remarried to a man who is not LDS. He, now deceased, drank, smoked, cursed, and generally did most of the things that we in this church know better than to do. We would have family gatherings at my grandparents home, and he would always have a beer in his hand. Before, with a girl that I was thinking about getting serious with, I got the impression (from what she had said) that she wouldn't want to be around this, and if it were her family, they would hold family gatherings somewhere else. THAT is what I'm talking about, being intolerant. I have friends who drink, friends who live an openly gay lifestyle, a friend who is a tatoo artist. These are all things I disagree with, and would never do personally, but I find, once I've gotten to know these people, that they are actually, other than some very obvious flaws, good, kind, people, and more Christ-like than some who may be in church every week. I just want a girl who can appreciate that, although we have chosen the better part, we cannot force anyone to think like we do, and shunning them doesn't do anyone any good.

[NerdGirl]

Marduk, I know exactly what you mean, and I think people with that attitude are naive and immature, and need to think seriously about whether or not they are treating people who don't share our beliefs and values the way the Savior would. I also have friend and family members who drink, are gay, etc, etc, and I would not date someone wouldn't want to be around a family member just because they smoked and drank. Some people live way too much in their little Mormon bubble instead of reaching out to the rest of the world. We're supposed to be in the world but not of the world. Sometimes people forget about the in the world part of that. We shouldn't cut people out of our lives just because they have different beliefs. How are they ever going to have the chance to learn about the gospel if those of us who have the gospel won't have anything to do with them? And I'm not saying that the only reason to be friends with people outside the gospel is to do missionary work, either. We should love them and respect them regardless of whether they become interested in the church, because they are our brothers and sisters.

And when I say that people live in little Mormon bubbles, I'm not referring to living in Utah. Let me tell you two stories about that that involve people that live nowhere near Utah.

Story #1: When I was a kid, there were several families in my ward that didn't let their kids play with non-Mormons on Sundays. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever encountered. I remember one weekend when I was 9 or 10, I had a friend from school staying with our family for the weekend because her parents were out of town. She was Catholic, but she came to church with us on Sunday. My mom thought it would be nice if we invited one of the girls from my primary class to come over after church and have lunch with us (the two of us frequently went over to each other's houses after church, so this wasn't anything new or weird) since my other friend was there and they could get to know each other. So I went and asked her after primary, with my other friend there, and she was like, "Oh, I can't, because (other friend) will be there and my parents don't let me play with non-Mormons on Sundays." It still makes me mad to think about that incident. How is that a good thing to be teaching your children?

Story #2: I have a good friend who recently moved across the country to graduate school. She's an atheist, she drinks, and she doesn't have a problem with sex before marriage. But she's very respectful of the fact that I choose to have a different lifestyle, and she also respects my beliefs and has been very interested in learning about what the church teaches about various things, even though she doesn't believe in God and sees no need for religion in her own life. She's also kind, friendly, and helpful to everyone she meets. So in her new department, there are a few LDS guys. Before she moved there I was the only Mormon she had ever met. She told me recently about these guys, and she said that they really keep to themselves and won't come to any department social events or even eat lunch with the rest of the department. She told she was really surprised by this because she had just assumed that all Mormons were like me and were okay with hanging out with a variety of people.

Another thing that really bugs me is that some people seem to have this attitude that people who break the word of wisdom or the law of chastity are sinners but that the rest of us aren't. Some sins are less visible and less easy to quantify, but none of us are perfect and it's okay to just be tolerant of others. Tolerance doesn't mean that you have to compromise your standards or approve of things that you don't approve of. It just means that you still love people even though they aren't perfect.

So my point with all of that is that I think it's okay for you not to date girls like the one you mentioned. Sorry for the long rant, but that kind of attitude just really bothers me.

[Katya]

We would have family gatherings at my grandparents home, and he would always have a beer in his hand. Before, with a girl that I was thinking about getting serious with, I got the impression (from what she had said) that she wouldn't want to be around this, and if it were her family, they would hold family gatherings somewhere else. THAT is what I'm talking about, being intolerant. . . . I just want a girl who can appreciate that, although we have chosen the better part, we cannot force anyone to think like we do, and shunning them doesn't do anyone any good.

Oh, there are definitely girls like that. I think a half dozen of my friends would fit the bill, although they're probably all too old for you (assuming you're an undergrad), and they tend to be . . . shall we say, "conflicted" Mormons, precisely because they do see the good both in the Church and in good people who don't live up to squeaky-clean LDS standards.

I'll be honest, though, BYU (if that's where you are) isn't really the best place to find such individuals. At the very least, you'll need some way to separate the girls you're looking for from the girls who would balk at the situations you've described.

[Unit of Energy]

I think that the kind of girl you are looking for is definitely out there are actually more common than you might think, even at BYU. I might be biased though, since I grew up with a similar situation, although in my case it was a baptized Mormon grandfather with the beer in hand. I didn't associate with the non Mormon side of the family much due to distance, not drinking or other practices my family does not agree with. I grew up 3000 miles away from pretty much the entirety of my dad's family.

[Marduk]

Well, I'm 24, don't know where that puts me on your scale. I've tried both sides of the coin; as a matter of fact, the girl I mentioned who is looking to become a tatoo artist now won't even speak to me because I refuse to be "open-minded" and say I would be alright with my (potential) future under-age children getting tatoos. I suppose it is a fine line to walk, and maybe I'm just a bit persnickety about where I'm allowing variance. Is it really so hard just to look at people and put them in the light of how they treat others, moreso then whether they commit whatever particular sin it is?

On another, but similar, note: I'm half Mexican. So, at least with that side of my family, there's a lot of brown people, and they often choose to dress or portray themselves in a way that, shall we say, is off-putting to girls who are very, uh, "white-bread". I hope I'm getting this point across alright; I mean, some of my cousins dress like "vatos", they are the nicest guys in the world once you get to know them, and are actually very active members of the church, just choose to dress in a way that identifies with their culture as well. I suppose I'm looking for a girl who is comfortable, and at least tries to associate with, people from a variety of different moral and ethnic values. But I digress, and I'm ranting a bit. I just really need some like-minded people right now to associate with; the world looks awfully gloomy at the moment.

[Proteus]

I haven't really met an LDS girl that I've truly liked/been interested in yet because of the open-mindedness factor. It seems that, especially on BYU campus, people have a huge difficulty separating mormon culture from mormon doctrine. I'm sure this is probably a pretty common gripe to hear and I've been told that I'll "get over it" but I feel like there's a lot of basis for feeling this way.

I also wouldn't mind getting married more around around "menace to society" age, which seems to be frowned upon around here. But hey, I guess we'll see.

Marduk, I'm pretty sure you'll be fine. I grew up with a very negative attitude about myself in relation to girls and one day I decided that I had to do something. It turns out that "something" is pretty easy to do. Invest in improving yourself and pretend to be confident until you find a real reason to be. If you're looking for someone less "white-bread" it might be hard if the place where you're living is predominately of that demographic-- heck, even I (being white, fiscally conservative, etc.) might consider casting my lure elsewhere once it gets to marrying time.

[krebscout]

I guess I just got lucky, because I met lots and lots of open-minded, free-spirited people during my time at BYU. Where are you guys looking?

I guess I met a lot of them thanks to the Board, and another good portion are due to my having been an art major, but they were everywhere - in my ward, in my generals, at my job, in the silly little improv group from my apartment complex that I joined.

I also don't know where this impression that getting married at age 24+ is looked down upon comes from. I've never run into that. Maybe because I haven't ever been 24 and single? It just seems like it's a self-perpetuating legend, though. No one that I know of really seems to care.

This school is huge. They're out there.

[Proteus]

This school is huge. They're out there.

Yeahhh, that's what my mom said. I don't disagree. I have met some nice people. There's an apartment of girls nearby that is closer to what I'm looking for, but I'll try and rephrase it closer to what I mean-- none of the LDS girls I've met really attract me that much. I don't know if it's the open-mindedness factor. I actually don't really know why...

Heh, I think I just need to start hanging around the HFAC or get involved in something besides my classes and BYU Breakers, but I know not what that might be! My ward literally hasn't had a social yet and, as I may have said about myself earlier, I'm probably introverting due to stress over major, grades, and finances. I'm sure it will get easier after freshman year and figuring all that business out. For now, I've still got a few decent bros to hold me up. And I guess I've got a mission on the way, so I needn't really be worrying about connecting much as depressing as that sounds.

[Katya]

I also don't know where this impression that getting married at age 24+ is looked down upon comes from. I've never run into that.

Sweet mercy, a friend of my mom's gave me a lecture when she found out I was single and turning 21. (I also took a lot of crap when I turned 21 and didn't go on a mission.)

Maybe because I haven't ever been 24 and single?

There you go. There's also the sensitivity factor. I.e., if you're already somewhat unhappy about your single state, any criticism or blame is going to have more of an impact than it would otherwise.