how to get a date

Portia · Post by **Portia** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:46 am

1. The h- ... ask the man on a date. If he's so insecure in his masculinity that he feels threatened by a simple "Hey, John/Jacob/Jingleheimer/Smith, would you go to a Homecoming Dance/The Olde Malte Shoppe/a wacky Provo scavenger hunt with me?" then why do you want to date him? This isn't Mr. Bingley, this is someone who was probably born well into the Clinton administration. If I ever had had to resort to lint-picking, I'd probably be celibate.

Whistler · Post by **Whistler** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:19 am

I like the point system, but yeah, asking guys out worked pretty well for me.

vorpal blade · Post by **vorpal blade** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:04 pm

I'm with Portia on this one. Are guys really so wimpy nowadays that they are scared off by an assertive female?

I might be put off by an overly domineering woman ("Hey you with the cute butt. You're coming with me to a movie tonight!") if that is what you mean by "assertive." And I understand how for some men the philosophy works that "you chase him until he catches you." We tend to value something less that is easy to obtain.

But really, what is wrong with guys today.

Portia · Post by **Portia** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm

Stop the presses. Vorpal and I completely agree on something.

TheBlackSheep · Post by **TheBlackSheep** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:17 pm

And me!

TheBlackSheep · Post by **TheBlackSheep** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:18 pm

Plus, you know, my standard this-is-the-21st-century-you're-allowed-to-ask speech. Stop being wimps, women!

Katya · Post by **Katya** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:02 pm

Portia wrote:Stop the presses. Vorpal and I completely agree on something.

Imogen · Post by **Imogen** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:09 pm

I've had guys tell me they were too intimidated to date me because I have my life together and don't live with my mom and have a career, not just a job. I don't think I'm too aggressive, especially because I'm pretty introverted irl. But most guys can't seem to handle a woman who doesn't really NEED them but WANTS them, which I don't get.

UffishThought · Post by **UffishThought** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:12 pm

I had a friend complain to me that guys told her they found her intimidating, which she thought was code for "unattractive." I think she's wrong (and pretty). I think it's more that she's got expectations, and isn't afraid to tell people when they're failing to live up to them. I also think the having the life together and a real career can be a bit intimidating to a guy who doesn't have those things, too. (Or to a girl, honestly. I like to be on even footing, is what I'm saying.

Anyway, I guess I'm just interested in what you all think "intimidating" usually means.

Katya · Post by **Katya** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:14 pm

Imogen wrote:I've had guys tell me they were too intimidated to date me because I have my life together and don't live with my mom and have a career, not just a job. I don't think I'm too aggressive, especially because I'm pretty introverted irl. But most guys can't seem to handle a woman who doesn't really NEED them but WANTS them, which I don't get.

http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values ... be-wanted/

Because (at least some) men are raised to believe that they can't be wanted or that being wanted isn't good enough.

NerdGirl · Post by **NerdGirl** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:18 pm

Yeah, if a guy doesn't want to date me because I am the one to do the asking, then he doesn't seem like the kind of guy I would like to be involved with anyway. So really asking guys out is probably a good way to weed out guys like that (if there even are guys like that. Ok, I'm sure there are, because there are all kinds of people in the world, but I've never actually met one).

Post by **Marduk** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:26 pm

Katya, you're getting a lot of mileage out of that thing.

Katya · Post by **Katya** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:28 pm

Marduk wrote:Katya, you're getting a lot of mileage out of that thing.

It's because I love it and it explains everything in the world! (Or because I don't remember where I've shared it before.

)

Post by **Marduk** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:47 pm

I'm just happy to see you making those arguments

Portia · Post by **Portia** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:53 pm

UffishThought wrote:Anyway, I guess I'm just interested in what you all think "intimidating" usually means.

I think of intimidating as people who are assertive, opinionated, maybe loud, maybe not afraid to air their accomplishments. I probably come across as intimidating to many people, because I am pretty brash and maybe a tad egotistical. Whereas I would be surprised if anyone were intimidated by my current boyfriend, because he is warm and friendly and though not a pushover, not really super in-your-face, either. I don't think it's an intellect or professional accomplishment thing, because we're pretty on a par as far as that goes, but a personality thing. #meanboardwriter

Also, you might have to grade on a curve for men and women, especially in a society like Utah. I.e., a woman with a certain personality or career would be "intimidating" there but a "great catch" if she were a man. Still blows my mind the law student that wrote to the board asking if she should lie about her career. Still stand by my years-old answer that that's bogus, and any dude should consider himself lucky to have a shot at a high-achieving woman with her life together.

Post by **Marduk** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:10 am

I've been told that I am intimidating. Still can't wrap my head around that one.

vorpal blade · Post by **vorpal blade** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:16 pm

Well, Marduk, maybe what they were saying is that they didn't feel good enough for you, and therefore you intimidated them. I've heard you have an impressive presence.

I've certainly known men who felt that a certain girl was too popular, or too good-looking, to be in the same "league" as them. In this way they were intimidated, meaning that they felt any advance they attempted would be instantly crushed. It is hard on your self-confidence or self-esteem to be humiliated by a cold and off-hand rejection. It takes a surprising amount of courage to ask a girl out, and unless you have been given encouragement in advance it may be too difficult for the average guy with a typically fragile ego.

I'm sure the same is true of women who don't think they are good enough for the attention of a particularly popular or handsome man. It is easy to fall back on the social expectation that it is the man's job to do the asking, when the truth is that it just takes a lot of nerve to put yourself on the line. Or self-confidence. And it is hard to have self-confidence if the majority of your experience in life is that you just don't measure up to the standards of the in-crowd, or the popularity of a cheer leader or star football player. Constant rejection can make anyone intimidated by someone who has his or her life together.

We talk a lot about self-esteem today, but unfortunately people forget that real self-esteem comes from success in something difficult. It doesn't come from eliminating competition and telling everyone they are winners. Cheaply won self-esteem is building your house on sand.

/end rant. I read the article Katya referenced and it has given me a lot to think about. I'm still thinking about it.

wryness · Post by **wryness** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:37 pm

So, I was about to make a longer version of an argument similar to that of the article Katya referenced--but then I decided to actually investigate the link; phew. I did a VERY quick skim-over for right now, but I think it's the same basic idea. I know that I have felt intimated by women that I thought were out of my league (so, I agree with your assessment there, vorpal), but I also agree that a lot of men (myself included) have been socially conditioned to various degrees to feel that if they are not being the provider--being "needed"--then their masculinity has been impinged upon. They kind of feel like a "boy toy" or "trophy boyfriend" next to a driven, successful woman. Not right in 99.9% of cases, of course, but a hard paradigm to overcome.

Owlet · Post by **Owlet** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:40 pm

I just wanted to say that because of the Board, I totally thought all the girls here were expected to ask guys on dates. I didn't really think it was that weird when I asked a guy out last week, and I was surprised when someone commended me for "breaking the norm" and now all my roommates think I'm "brave." Because of reading the Board, I just thought that women asking men on dates was the normal BYU thing to do. So I'm at least one instance of the Board's girls-can-ask-guys-on-dates advice positively changing a reader's opinion of how dating works. Hooray!

Portia · Post by **Portia** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:46 pm

Owlet wrote:I just wanted to say that because of the Board, I totally thought all the girls here were expected to ask guys on dates. I didn't really think it was that weird when I asked a guy out last week, and I was surprised when someone commended me for "breaking the norm" and now all my roommates think I'm "brave." Because of reading the Board, I just thought that women asking men on dates was the normal BYU thing to do. So I'm at least one instance of the Board's girls-can-ask-guys-on-dates advice positively changing a reader's opinion of how dating works. Hooray!

Hooray!

Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

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