Churchy Faithy Stuff

[Zedability]

What do you do when you believe in the core doctrines of the Church (Atonement, need for ordinances, need for proper authority for ordinances, existence of said authority in some form or another in the LDS church) but ALL of the policies and social issues and culture are just KILLING YOU?

I used to think "oh well even if it's hard you have to stay because Salvation, &c," but...ugh. It would be easier to not believe the doctrines either. But I do, so ???????

[Zedability]

As someone with perfectionistic tendencies, the idea that the Telestial Kingdom will be totally great, but you'll always ~regret you didn't do better~ absolutely sounds like The Real Hell, so taking a break from Church kind of seems unthinkable????????????????

[Cognoscente]

Based on my spotty recollection of D&C 132, I'm pretty sure if you have the ordinances, you won't be in the Telestial kingdom no matter what. That's for whoremongers and murderers and such. I don't think taking a break from Church is a damning choice.

However, you may find you're happier without it. And that opens up a whole bunch of other questions.

I was where you are at about 5-6 years ago I think. It sucks. I'm sorry.

[Whistler]

I'm in primary and I find that it's easier than attending SS/RS and getting worked up over whatever thing. I also try to focus on how church makes me interact with people I wouldn't normally interact with. I strongly believe in community and I hope that your ward can give you some group solidarity experiences like singing hymns, participating in potlucks, or doing service together. That said if there's someone who really bothers you in Sunday school, see if you can go to a different Sunday School class or maybe offer to teach a family history class or something. RS is harder to get away from, but there are plenty of legitimate ways to take a break. Get a drink, fellowship someone stuck in the hall, or strike up a conversation with someone comforting a small child. I can't remember if you have a small child, but if you do, they're always a good excuse to leave any meeting, haha.

I found it strangely comforting that the church has been making changing political statements since Joseph Smith. Studying history has really shown me how human our leaders are and so I guess my expectations are lower now? I know it can be really frustrating. The church is REALLY slow to change anything, but I'm hopeful that the retrenchment is a sign that the church could change to be more open in the future. Before the priesthood ban ended, there was a period of time where black people weren't even allowed to perform baptisms for the dead, and members in South Africa weren't allowed to have the priesthood unless they could trace their genealogy outside South Africa (the not one drop rule). But these things DID change. So maybe the church can change again.

[Zedability]

It's actually really interesting to look at the different Church positions on whether ordinances guarantee you a certain spot, or whether progression is possible between kingdoms, etc. There was a huge range of positions up until about the 60s, and then the reform rhetoric that accompanied correlation, McConkie, Benson, etc., was like "NO ABSOLUTELY NOT."

Yeah we have a small child and Sunday School and Relief Society are during her nap time so we just go to sacrament meeting these days, which is fine. We're in a married student ward so there are basically no callings that take you out of second/third hour.

Sometimes I think past changes are encouraging and sometimes I think that the backlash to those changes is causing more retrenchment and resistance to future change, idk. I think it was easier to change stuff back before the Internet had exhaustive records for everything haha.

[TheBlackSheep]

It sounds like you are exactly where I was soon to when I left. I’m sorry. It isn’t easy or fun. That’s what finally motivated me to leave.

[Portia]

What did I do? Got the heck out of dodge, obvi.

What should you do? I don't know, but I'm here for you no matter what. <3

[Emiliana]

I was raised evangelical-ish rather than Mormon, so my faith crisis involved a different set of intellectual issues. But emotionally, I think it's not so different, and it sucks. I don't have anything much to add except that it's hard, but you already knew that. So....yeah.

[Genuine Article]

I'm taking a two-pronged approach of waiting for the older generation to die out / trying to change my ward as best I can from the inside. After listening to Sharon Eubank's talk this past conference about the importance of friendships within the Church as well as learning to articulate our opinions, I've decided that those two things don't need to be at odds with each other. I'm not going to make any genuine connections with people by clamming up about what I really think, so from now on I'm not going to hide my non-Republican status. And with the change in RS curriculum next year to include more discussion I may even get downright argumentative. I'm looking forward to fighting the good fight even if it means fighting with all the good southern ladies in my very Red ward.

[vorpal blade]

So, are you living in the South, now, Genuine Article?

[Genuine Article]

Yup, Tennessee.

[vorpal blade]

That’s cool. I once spent a day walking around Old Stone Fort State Archeological Park in Manchester, Tennessee. As you may know the name came from the fact that early European settlers thought it looked just like a fort. Later archeologists said that couldn’t be right as the fort was so big it would take thousands to defend such a big fort, and they just “knew” Indians never fought in groups of more than a few dozen. So they have decided it was for “ceremonial” purposes. Yet if you really look into it you find the remains of a fort accurately described as the kind built by Moroni in the book of Alma. And some of the evidence suggests the fort is that old. I found that exciting.

I wonder if you would be happy living in the city where I live. In 2011 there were 36,280 registered voters. Only 396 of them were Republicans.

[Whistler]

I'm taking a two-pronged approach of waiting for the older generation to die out / trying to change my ward as best I can from the inside. After listening to Sharon Eubank's talk this past conference about the importance of friendships within the Church as well as learning to articulate our opinions, I've decided that those two things don't need to be at odds with each other. I'm not going to make any genuine connections with people by clamming up about what I really think, so from now on I'm not going to hide my non-Republican status. And with the change in RS curriculum next year to include more discussion I may even get downright argumentative. I'm looking forward to fighting the good fight even if it means fighting with all the good southern ladies in my very Red ward.

thumbs-up

[vorpal blade]

How is life going for you, Whistler?

[Whistler]

How is life going for you, Whistler?

It's going pretty well, although from this and other threads you can see that sometimes I find church frustrating and my daughter's babysitter suffers from depression. Whistler isn't an anonymous identity anymore, so I shouldn't be so wary about revealing personal details, but I still am.