Answers I liked

[Portia]

Justifying being a slob by saying "well I'm just a future slob mom!" is among the dumbest things I've ever heard. If you want a Traditional Mormon Marriage™, being a decent housekeeper is part of that.

My grandma worked 53 years straight, raised a kid, and keeps a spotless home. Dishes aren't rocket science. Kudos to the reader for embracing adulthood.

[Portia]

Finding roommates in Salt Lake

Everyone I know, without exception, falls in love with Salt Lake City after living in Provo. Not that Provo doesn't have its good points (closeness to canyons, BYU activities, the Coffee Pod and Station 22 and weirdly good pupusas), but I know *my* sanity, social and dating life, and pay improved when I made the move back to Salt Lake County.

I strongly recommend using Facebook groups. They've become an awesome resource for finding roommates, sublets, and families renting basements. Of course, there are *many* options. Some initial wards I'd recommend would be Cottonwood YSA, Alta Canyon, the University of Utah institute if you're younger (<27), and my personal favorite, the ward of awesome hipsters around 9th and 9th. Funnily enough, they mostly went to BYU, and I know them all, both from high school and college and friends of exes.

Email me. But start with FB.

[Marduk]

Do you know me? Because if so, I'm an exception. I hate living in Salt Lake.

[Katya]

This was fun

[Katya]

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/74381/

Nurturing does not necessarily equal stay-at-home mom. -Maven

No, but I wouldn't say that the language supports the opposite, either.

Also, I wonder how many of the people who "liked" obstreporous' answer think that obstreporous actually agrees with the paragraph quoted.

Also also, I don't think that this girl's problem with her roommates is really about being a career woman. I think they're not getting along for personality reasons (which is coming out in arguments about cleaning, etc.) and then they're just bringing up her career plans as an ad hominem attack.

[Portia]

Do you know me? Because if so, I'm an exception. I hate living in Salt Lake.

I don't know you well, no. I guess I should have clarified that I meant "all my close friends." Specifically, ones who are not from Utah originally, and think they hate it, then discover they don't.

[Portia]

So, after my dad works 40 hours a week to provide for my family (his responsibility as outlined by the proclamation)

I didn't know that the Family Proclamation only applied to First World, middle-class men. My dad has never worked a 40-hour week, ever, nor would I expect certain professionals like Dieter Uchtdorf to have that luxury.

[Portia]

Benevolent sexism is still sexism!

What a weird culture where having a healthy self-image and not feeling bad about yourself is not the norm.

I think the former directly relates to the latter. If you are institutionally silenced, poor self-esteem or narcissism is a fairly predictable response. I've become kind of obsessed with this idea lately. Thoughts?

[S.A.M.]

This letter from Sinead O'Connor to Miley Cyrus is great.

So why is having a healthy self-image and feeling good about yourself not the norm, not just in society in general, but also it seems among the youth in the LDS church? Do we need to do a better job teaching the principles that should lead there?

[Portia]

So why is having a healthy self-image and feeling good about yourself not the norm, not just in society in general, but also it seems among the youth in the LDS church? Do we need to do a better job teaching the principles that should lead there?

Yes. What happened to Individual Worth? When did eating disorders become so common? (That question about the girl who would rather die than gain weight made me so sad.) Why are so many readers calling themselves "evil" or horrible people? Why do women not have higher expectations in relationships? How is abuse okay?

Sounds like we need to get back to first principles. Didn't know we had to teach young men and women to not be jerks to each other, but reading about 12-year-olds jumping from platforms after their peers telling them to die, clearly we as a society have unleashed something dark and frightening.

[Cindy]

To some extent, I think the problem is perpetuated by well-intentioned but misguided attempts to address these issues.

For instance, a few weeks ago my ward had an FHE where they brought in a panel of people to talk about dating and whatnot. The panel spent the first 20 minutes talking about how we really shouldn't define our worth by our marital status, and we really are worth something even though we're single, and we should stop thinking negative thoughts about ourselves because we're single. After a while, I started to think, "Am I supposed to think I'm worth nothing because I'm single? I don't think it's a problem, but these people obviously think it is. Do they know something I don't know?" Their intentions were good, but I think it's counterproductive to start from the viewpoint that it's normal to think you're worth nothing based on your singleness (or your weight, or your economic status, or whatever).

Along the same lines, I went to a presentation once about representations of women in the media, and they were talking about how, for instance, something like 85% of women are unhappy with the way they look. I don't think it's bad per se to educate people about problems like this, but when you start dwelling on these kinds of statistics, it starts to make everyone who doesn't currently have self-image problems think that maybe that's unnatural. And if you think too much about why you don't have self-image problems when everyone else does, you can start coming up with things to feel about yourself for. By dwelling on the problem too much, it can become self-perpetuating.

[Portia]

To some extent, I think the problem is perpetuated by well-intentioned but misguided attempts to address these issues.

For instance, a few weeks ago my ward had an FHE where they brought in a panel of people to talk about dating and whatnot. The panel spent the first 20 minutes talking about how we really shouldn't define our worth by our marital status, and we really are worth something even though we're single, and we should stop thinking negative thoughts about ourselves because we're single. After a while, I started to think, "Am I supposed to think I'm worth nothing because I'm single? I don't think it's a problem, but these people obviously think it is. Do they know something I don't know?" Their intentions were good, but I think it's counterproductive to start from the viewpoint that it's normal to think you're worth nothing based on your singleness (or your weight, or your economic status, or whatever).

Along the same lines, I went to a presentation once about representations of women in the media, and they were talking about how, for instance, something like 85% of women are unhappy with the way they look. I don't think it's bad per se to educate people about problems like this, but when you start dwelling on these kinds of statistics, it starts to make everyone who doesn't currently have self-image problems think that maybe that's unnatural. And if you think too much about why you don't have self-image problems when everyone else does, you can start coming up with things to feel about yourself for. By dwelling on the problem too much, it can become self-perpetuating.

Yep.

I had a stake conference at BYU when I was 18 that at least didn't beat around the bush. "Hello to all you singles ... and that's a problem!"

This is why I don't like the Dove commercials about Real Beauty ®, because it still puts a weird emphasis on personal appearance. It's soap. You were dirty, now you are less so. The end.

[S.A.M.]

Yes, we should acknowledge a problem, but I agree, too much focus on it can be bad.

I think we have lost some sense of community and inclusion. I am totally not anti-technology. I love technology and the amazing things it makes possible. It also allows us to form groups that are more and more exclusive, and we end up considering our neighbors strangers, or "different". We don't have to develop friendships with people who may have different views and/or opinions than we do. (This works both ways though. It can be great to reach out and realize that there are many, many people like you in the world if your viewpoint/values are different than the norm in your area. You are not weird/wrong/broken for being different.)

As I have thought about this, I've wondered if lowering the age for young women and men to serve missions could be as much about battling these trends, and giving them the opportunity to really build that healthy self-image and tolerance for others, as it is to increase the number of baptisms.

How to change this then? Maybe go do something to, for, or with someone you might not normally hang out with (something positive). Not necessarily service, but that's fine! I have never liked the home teaching where we went in, made small talk, gave a quick lesson, and left. I like going over and doing something, like cleaning gutters, pulling weeds, working on a car, playing a card game etc. We try to do something useful instead of just taking up someones time chatting.

[Portia]

This has interesting parallels with Dragon Lady not knowing her neighbors. (Not to pick on her. I don't know mine, either, for that matter.) Surrounding ourselves with only people exactly like us does seem like it could lead to problems. But I don't think that's the main factor with the psychologically abusive middle schoolers.

[Dragon Lady]

I'm coming in mid-conversation and I'm too busy/lazy to go read all the context, but I do want to put a plug in for technology when it comes to getting to know people. We actually have a neighborhood Facebook group and I've definitely gotten to know more neighbors, served more neighbors, bought stuff off neighbors, and pretty much grew my social circle via Facebook than I ever would have left to my own devices.

That said, I have no idea if that's on topic or not.

[Whistler]

This reminds me of how we had a fireside in my ward that was titled "Do you ever feel inadequate?" and it made me think "well, not usually, but am I missing something by not worrying about this?" Ah, the irony of trying to address insecurities and instead creating them.

[mic0]

Woman who is so ready to be a stay-at-home mom. Maven gave a lovely answer! I definitely would have added that this person should look into jobs where she can use those homemaking skills - nannying, day care, after school programs for kids? I don't know. I guess it isn't the same when it isn't your own family, but why shouldn't she have a job she actually likes.

[S.A.M.]

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/74522/

I like Stego Lily's answer. Feeling the Spirit should not make you anxious or afraid.

[Portia]

Woman who is so ready to be a stay-at-home mom. Maven gave a lovely answer! I definitely would have added that this person should look into jobs where she can use those homemaking skills - nannying, day care, after school programs for kids? I don't know. I guess it isn't the same when it isn't your own family, but why shouldn't she have a job she actually likes.

Sometimes, this attitude frustrates me, because I feel like it makes employers think that women will jump ship, so they don't take us as seriously as candidates for positions. I think I'm glad to be outside Utah to start my career for this very reason.

[Dragon Lady]

Woman who is so ready to be a stay-at-home mom. Maven gave a lovely answer! I definitely would have added that this person should look into jobs where she can use those homemaking skills - nannying, day care, after school programs for kids? I don't know. I guess it isn't the same when it isn't your own family, but why shouldn't she have a job she actually likes.

Sometimes, this attitude frustrates me, because I feel like it makes employers think that women will jump ship, so they don't take us as seriously as candidates for positions. I think I'm glad to be outside Utah to start my career for this very reason.

Wait… so it's ok for a woman to want to work instead of being a housewife, but… it's not ok for a woman to want to be a housewife instead of working?